Aliens? Yes! But Maybe No

The Skinwalker Ranch Mystery: UFOs, Portals, and High Strangeness

• Aliens? Yes! But Maybe No • Episode 23

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In this episode, we discuss Utah’s Uinta Basin, particularly Skinwalker Ranch—where indigenous warnings, rancher reports, and modern sensors collide in a 512-acre tangle of orbs, voids, and hypotheses.

We start with the foundation: Ute land, Navajo Skinwalker lore, and a mesa crowned by a stone circle that some say marks a door. From late-1800s thunder-without-storms to mid-century sightings of silent, directional lights, the basin built a reputation well before it had a brand. Then come the Shermans: a massive “wolf” that ignores close-range gunfire, blue spheres that terrify their dogs, a night of yelps ending in scorched patches, and cattle mutilations marked by clean incisions and a baffling absence of scavengers. Inside the homestead, groceries repack themselves and tools move like they have a sense of humor.

Research ramps up when Robert Bigelow buys the ranch and staffs it with scientists under NIDS, later drawing quiet Pentagon money via AAWSAP. They log radiation spikes, dead batteries, wiped drives, and a night-vision glimpse of something crawling from a glowing aperture. The phenomenon seems responsive, even evasive, as if determined to fail every clean experiment. Years later, new owner Brandon Fugal outfits the property with rockets, LIDAR, spectrum analyzers, and radar. His team maps an airspace “triangle” that scrambles launches, detects a persistent 1.6 GHz signal rising from the ground, and records a LIDAR data void—like an invisible object blocking light. Drilling meets impenetrable material and unusual metals beneath the mesa; a drum ceremony ignites a localized heat spike that disappears when the beat stops; an unmarked helicopter violates airspace norms and vanishes without answers.

So what is it? A portal. A trickster. Geology. Black-budget tech. Or a coincidence factory powered by our attention. We lay out the strongest evidence, the best skeptical counterpoints, and where our own scales land on aliens, poltergeists, and the beauty and pain inside the skinwalker story. Hit play, decide what holds up, and tell us the theory we missed.

If this dive got you thinking, follow the show, share it with a friend, and drop a rating or review so more curious minds can find us.

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Travis:

Aliens. Aliens. Aliens. Yes. But maybe no. Hey! Welcome back to the show. This is Aliens Yes, but maybe no with Josh and Travis. I'm Travis. I'm Josh. This is an otherworldly podcast as ambiguous as our title.

Josh:

That was great.

Travis:

Right? I never know when to jump in. So we play the music. I'm sure Josh puts it in post intro, but when it starts to slowly fade out, I never know what my cue is to start talking.

Josh:

Yeah, I have it all timed up.

Travis:

Perfect.

Josh:

So what did we talk about last week? Last week we talked about close encounters. It was just a knowledge-based episode. I mean, we couldn't debate. That's right. It was just what it is. We were just learning because some of the episodes, which I don't know what they are, but some of the episodes coming forward, we need to have a little bit more knowledge. I remember now. Yeah. And there's some spooky stuff. We had a letter that we had to open mid-record.

Travis:

We don't have anything like that this week, do we? No.

Josh:

Nope.

Travis:

Thank God.

Josh:

I enjoyed that.

Travis:

That was a good episode. Yeah, it was good. Nice and easy.

Josh:

Yeah. But this one's going to get rough.

Travis:

Terrified of this one. So before we get started on this, we have a few housekeeping notes, right? We wanted to talk about.

Josh:

Yeah, we finally hit 1,000 downloads, which doesn't mean much right now. It means the world to me. Well, it does. I mean, it means a lot. Uh-huh. But when it comes to when you guys are hearing this episode, it's going to be a lot more.

Travis:

Maybe. Maybe we've had a peak. Who knows? As of the time of this record, as we're celebrating a thousand downloads, to give you context. So these episodes get released a little later than we record them. A lot later. So this might be six months. So there might be a lot of information that comes out between now and when this airs. Correct. So at the time of this record, to give you guys some cultural context, we have just elected a new Pope. Yep. First American Pope, Pope Leo from Chicago.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

I don't know what his pre-Pope name is, I forgot, but he's going to be Pope Leo. Kind of cool.

Josh:

Yeah. We just want to let you guys know that we are a little bit you hear this in September.

Travis:

You're going to be like, what? Another new Pope? Nope. Same old Pope. Hopefully he's like 69. Uh nice.

Josh:

I think this might come out in like October, November.

Travis:

Yeah. Oh.

Josh:

I think we're pretty far out. So we've recorded a lot of episodes. Far out, man. Yeah. We didn't want to stress. We've just been recording for a long time, and we have a lot of content already recorded. Sure. Which is great. This is the only housekeeping announcement, right?

Travis:

It's not even housekeeping. It's just well, this is housekeeping. This is just like what you you would call housekeeping. Just like we're keeping everybody involved in what's going on in the keep of our house.

Josh:

A family meeting.

Travis:

Yeah, exactly.

Josh:

Yeah. Okay.

Travis:

In front of me and you and a thousand of our close personal friends. So thank you for listening. Thanks for the downloads. Keep it up. This is very exciting. Yeah. We've been doing this for a year now, a little over a year. Yeah. We should be celebrating that too. That's true. Where's that bubbly?

Josh:

I probably drank it while watching Ancient Aliens. Why do you think I believe so much?

Travis:

It's I don't know. To fill that empty void in your heart.

Josh:

This week we are doing a very famous topic. Yeah. Probably one of the most famous locations.

Travis:

So let's talk a little bit about this. So today we're going to be talking about the Skinwalker Ranch.

Speaker:

Mm-hmm.

Travis:

What do you know? Just before we even get into our hot DOS, what do you know about Skinwalker Ranch? Or maybe I'll start because mine is very young. So Skinwalker Ranch for me means Sam and Kobe explore the paranormal.

Josh:

Who's Sam and Kobe?

Travis:

I have no idea. They're YouTubers. Okay. That my youngest was, I wouldn't say obsessed, but was very fond of and would watch these YouTubers she thinks are very funny. Okay. They're just two young kids that explore paranormal events or places. Anyway, they went to Skinwalker Ranch. They were like, we are approaching this with reverence, and they even did like a little meditation before, and then just like fucked the place up, shot rockets off, cut themselves and bled on a rock, and just did like the most annoying, disrespectful kind of what you'd expect YouTubers to do to get eyeballs to their content.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

Because that's what I feel like that is. It's just filling up the vastness of YouTube. This was something you watched? Yeah, it was a theatrical release. We saw it in theaters. Whoa. So Sam and Kobe got our money. That's weird. I didn't know YouTubers did stuff in the theaters. I don't know how often this happens, but it was like a feature-length documentary that they probably couldn't get people to watch on YouTube because like YouTube attention spans about 15 minutes, I think, at the max. Wow. I mean, we tried to watch Skinwalker Ranch documentary that was 59 minutes, and we fucking noped out about 36 minutes into it and sort of fast forwarding to see how much is left of this thing. Yeah. So you don't know much? No, I don't know anything. And I'm probably through osmosis have picked up a couple things that we might find out throughout the course of this record.

Josh:

But up to us watching this video and some of the videos that we watch, Union. Next to nothing.

Travis:

I'd seen like these AI videos of skin walkers and it looks terrifying. Like these four-legged humanoid beings that just can't shapeshifters. They just look like skin sacks. They look like big gaunt, kind of like the pale man from Pan's Labyrinth.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Travis:

Walking around on all fours just looking creepy with their heads all the way back, and then there's farmers that are like freaking out. And so that is my exposure to the skinwalker rant.

Josh:

Yeah, for me.

Travis:

I imagine yours goes deep.

Josh:

Yeah, I've done research a little bit, like freelance research through the years. I've watched the TV show. You did it freelance? Freelance. No one paid me.

Travis:

Well, that's not freelance work. Freelance is like where you get paid for.

Josh:

Oh, then I got paid.

Travis:

Okay.

Josh:

With knowledge.

Travis:

Uh-huh. Oh, there you go.

Josh:

Okay. Yeah. And I've watched the TV show. That's what initially got me into investigating a little bit further, just because it's fascinating. And the TV show makes it really exciting. And that's kind of what I know about it. The TV show goes through all the history, they go through all the lore. They go through all the many, many different things that happen there. Yeah. So I have a pretty good rounded knowledge of Skinwalker. Yeah.

Travis:

I am particularly interested in lore. I think that's it aligns very much with what I was interested in, especially as a young person. A youth. Yeah. And I don't know if this is common for a lot of people out here in the West, but I had an indigenous phase where I was very interested in like the indigenous people that were here before us. I had that phase. So that's what I'm saying. Is like maybe that was a common thing for people here in the West because that was we're still we're talking like late 1800s when they were forced from their land.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

Like we were talking before off mic about Chief Joseph, and he was one of the last holdouts. They were slowly taking away land from the Nesperse, and they tried to flee to Canada and were stopped at the border.

Josh:

Wow. So let's dive into this.

Travis:

Okay. Let's get into some hot DOS.

Josh:

All right. So there's a stretch of desert in northeastern Utah that defies explanation. Sitting on approximately 512 acres is a property that has become a famous hotspot of paranormal activity. A place where glowing orbs drift silently across the sky and shadowy monsters lurk. Where animals vanish or are found mutilated, where technology fails, time bends, and people witness things they can't comprehend. For generations, locals have passed down the centuries-old story of the cursed land and warned against ever going there. And in more recent years, it's attracted the attention of paranormal investigators, scientists, UFO researchers, and even the U.S. government. So this is our deep dive into Skinwalker Ranch. I would say deep dive very loosely. You don't like that word at all.

Travis:

No, I never go deep.

Josh:

You don't like content, you don't like deep dives.

Travis:

Well, I mean, to say that this is a deep dive is I think very specific to our podcast because I don't think we go deep.

Josh:

No.

Travis:

Surface level for us.

Josh:

Yeah. Just the tip.

Travis:

Yes. Exactly. Just the tip. Yeah. It was yes, but maybe no. Just the tip.

Josh:

So you were talking about indigenous lore. This is all indigenous land. It sits on land traditionally inhabited by the Ute tribe. And for generations there were stories about the strange things that happened around this mesa. It's a massive sandstone ridge overlooking the Skinwalker Ranch. And there's a lot of belief tied to the Navajo concept of the skinwalker. So a skinwalker sounds like a cryptid similar to the chupacabra or the bigfoot, but it's much, much different. In traditional lore, skinwalker is a person who's deliberately chosen to do evil, to use black magic, often involving death or desecration, in exchange for the power to transform into animals, move undetected, and cause harm.

Travis:

Yeah.

Josh:

Which you were saying, you love that idea.

Travis:

I actually really do. That's this like a fantasy concept, which is probably taken from indigenous cultures and like a lot of fantasy books. There is a creature that is either left behind and is cursed with an evil to protect that land. And so the reason you want this person to go this dark is because they will protect this land at all costs. They don't have that annoying little part of your conscience that says, maybe this isn't right, this isn't good. It's a very cutthroat and you would say evil. It's like you're all in. You're all in, you're going to do whatever it takes to keep people from desecrating or inhabiting this area. Yeah, it's a huge sacrifice. It's a huge sacrifice, and you usually pick one of the strongest members of your tribe or your group. I mean, sometimes they're like a holy person and then they take on it's basically like a sacrifice. Yeah. You're sacrificing yourself to become this unholy thing. Yeah. So I love that as a concept. I like the idea of that. It's very interesting to me. Absolutely. Evil for the greater good, I guess you might say.

Josh:

Yeah, there's a silver lining with it where it's dark, but it's also beautiful and heroic. Heartbreaking too. Yeah.

Travis:

It's important to approach this whole topic with respect because it is a very real thing for And then this is where, just like Sam and Kobe, we start eating our own farts, right after saying something like that.

Josh:

No, no, no. I just the Navajo don't typically talk about skinwalkers openly. They take it very seriously, and they especially don't talk about it with outsiders. So these stories, they aren't just ghost stories.

Travis:

But if they don't, how do we know about it? There had to have been a leak.

Josh:

They don't typically.

Travis:

Because it's a holy pyre thing. That's why Mormons don't talk about their special underwear. But we all know that it exists and they wear it.

Josh:

Yeah. These stories that they tell when they do tell it, it's more of a warning and markers of real fear and cultural history for the tribe. So this is kind of how the legend and the lore or these warnings happened. This is the story. Over time, tensions between the Navajo and the Ute tribes, particularly during forced relocations in the 1800s, led to stories that the Navajo may have cursed the land in retaliation. Whether that's literally true or more of a way to explain the continued strangers is hard to say. But one of the most interesting parts of the lore is a stone circle that sits on top of the mesa, kind of a spiral thing, built according to some accounts hundreds of years ago. Some say it represents a kind of portal, not just metaphorically, but literally a doorway to something else, another dimension or another reality. Okay. And that idea of the land behaving differently isn't limited to just indigenous stories. It becomes a theme that repeats over and over and over as we move forward in time.

Travis:

Okay. Yeah. We're just going to get into a little bit of some of the history, and this is going to cover a broad span of time. So from the late 1880s to the 1950s. Settlers moved west into the late 1800s. The land round will become Skinwalker Ranch. This is before it was called Skinwalker Ranch.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

Was divided, fenced off, and claimed. It was a usual pattern of homesteading, and that's like the practice of going out and finding land that you think is yours and then staking your claim. And now that's your you've now owned that land. Your place. Yeah. Ranching, farming, and with it came the assumption that anything unexplained could eventually be managed or explained away. So in 1886, the U.S. military completed construction of a new outpost in the region, Fort Duchesne. This wasn't far from the ranch, and over time, soldiers and civilians stationed there started noticing that the area on the Mesa was on off. Oh. They were on it, but it was off. Something was off. Yes, something was off. Not always in obvious ways, but enough to cause unease. That same year, a family named Myers began purchasing the land that would eventually become Skinwalker Ant. Their presence marked the beginning of a private relationship with the land, one that passed through owners over time, but rarely without incident. So we're seeing like a huge span of time here where there's not a lot that's going on. So what was happening during that time? Nothing. The spirits were settled. The extraterrestrials were like, uh, we're just gonna take a little nap on this place. But you know what's popping off right now? Roswell.

Josh:

Yeah, I mean, there was some earlier accounts, and it wasn't anything out of this world. It was more strange sounds you know, before Roswell.

Travis:

So some of the Earth's reports of strange activity came in the form of unexplained sounds. In 1906, local newspapers mentioned odd thunder-like noises in the Uinta basin. These weren't storms, they didn't come with lightning, and they didn't fade the way thunder normally does. Some locals believe the sounds came from underground, from shifting rock deep within Uinta fault line. And we saw evidence of that in that little dock that we sped through. Yeah. Over the next several decades, that pattern continues. Strange lights in the sky, loud booms with no visible source, animals reacting to things no one could see.

Josh:

That always freaks me out.

Travis:

Yeah.

Josh:

When animals react. Because I trust an animal over a human.

Travis:

Yeah, they're pure beings.

Josh:

Yeah. Dogs and cats. Some of them. I mean cats are pure evil. Well, they're still pure. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, that was like the 1880s to the 1950s. From the 1950s to the 70s, that's when things get a little wackier. By the 1950s, the strange sounds and folklore around the Uinta basin had started to evolve into something harder to dismiss. People weren't just hearing odd noises anymore. They were seeing things. Lights in the sky, objects that hover, shifted directions instantly, or move silently across the open air. These sightings didn't look or behave like aircrafts or weather balloons, and while not everyone was willing to talk about what they saw, the stories still spread. So some of the notable sightings is 1956, Sandy Richmond, near Bridgeland, Utah, 30 miles from the ranch. Sandy reported an orange orb flying over a hill, and it moved quickly and made no sound except for a soft hum. So can we really attribute that to Skywalker Ranch?

Travis:

It's 30 miles away. That's like quite a distance.

Josh:

Well, a lot of these, the indigenous tribes talked about this being one of the pathways for the skinwalker. So there's high strangeness that happens in this area, but it's not the only place that was cursed. It's kind of like the hub. Okay. And the skinwalker can be seen through many states, actually, like New Mexico, Arizona, Utah. And states of being. They're shapeshifters. That's true. In 1956, there's Sam Brew. He's a Roosevelt. Sam saw a silver dome-shaped craft hovering quietly in the sky. He said it was the size of a small house and claimed to see a figure inside standing at a window and describing a physical sensation like pressure radiating from the object. 1965, Brent D. Young from Dry Fork. Brent reported what he thought was a star until it began to move. It approached silently, hovered, and then shot off into the distance. So by the mid-1960s, sightings like these had become a routine in that region. It became very common. Yeah.

Travis:

And then Welcome to the ranch, Sherman family.

Josh:

Yeah. In 1992, Terry and Gwen Sherman purchased the property known as Skinwalker Ranch. So this whole time it was owned by It had passed through multiple people. Yeah, so it had, but the Myers that originally ended up buying up a lot of that land. They've owned it for so long. And then eventually Terry and Gwen Sherman purchased the property and they had no idea what they're walking into.

Travis:

Classic Sherman behavior.

Josh:

Yeah, they just wanted to live the ranch life. And they were very prominent ranchers. Who is it?

Travis:

Terry had a degree in animal husbandry.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

He watched animals fuck.

Josh:

Is that what that is?

Travis:

Yeah, that's uh yes, that's like helping animals procreate to essentially weed out weaker genes.

Josh:

Okay. So they were looking for a good place for grazing for their cattle, and they wanted a fresh start. But from the very beginning, something felt off, not on. So day one, when they get there, as they were unloading their belongings, a massive wolf approached them. It was calm and almost friendly and larger than any wolf terry had ever seen. The animal walked up to the pen and grabbed a calf by the muzzle through the bars.

Travis:

Looking for a little snack.

Josh:

Yeah, the video we were watching, it didn't automatically go and grab a calf. It actually came up to the family and they were able to pet it.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Josh:

So they thought it was like tame or it belonged to someone in the area. And then shortly after it walked over.

Travis:

A calf had like curiously poked its head through the fence and the wolf just bit it on the head. Yeah and wouldn't let go.

Josh:

Yeah, and the wolf was trying to pry it through the bars when the calf popped its head out. Terry tried to stop it. He fired his magnum at close range. Well, they hit it with sticks. Yeah.

Travis:

First they went and hit it with sticks. When that didn't work, one of them went inside to grab their magnum, humble brag, condom. Yeah. And started blasting.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

Point blake.

Josh:

So he fired it and nothing happened. So he shot again and still no reaction. So Gwen handed him his hunting rifle and another shot, and finally the wolf let go and slowly walked off as if nothing had happened. Like that it wasn't shot multiple times. Which I feel like if I were shot, that's how I'd react. Just cool and collected. Yeah. I don't want to look stupid. I would be like, oh. Oh you'd overdo it. Yeah, I don't yeah. Yeah. So Terry and his son followed this wolf's tracks, which suddenly vanished 200 feet out with no blood, no body, and no trail. So that was day one. I'd be a little skeptical.

Travis:

That happened just right off the bat. But it is it's ranch life, man.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Travis:

I mean, they'd obviously had encounters with wolves before, the ranchers. This is kind of it's just like what ranchers always come across. Like ranchers are the biggest proponents of hunting wolves because they want to protect their livestock. It's profit over I wouldn't say people. Profit over wolves.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

Right? Put that on a sticker.

Josh:

Yeah. So over the following months, the Shermans began seeing glowing orbs hovering over their fields. The colors included blue, orange, and red, and the blue orbs in particular sent their dogs into fits of fear. And lights also appeared in the sky that were faster and more erratic than any of the known aircrafts at the time. Terry claimed to see a glowing orange portal open in mid-air at one point, and through it a dark creature crawled out, dropped to the ground, and sprinted away. Like a little poop. That's a note for me.

Travis:

Yeah.

Josh:

And then another evening, when three of their dogs chased a blue orb into the woods, so this is where we're getting into like, what are we talking about here?

Travis:

Are we talking about extraterrestrials or are we talking about an indigenous people's curse? Because this seems like blending so many different ideas here. And this is where I feel like the lore gets really confusing. Because they're like, it's a curse. No, it's aliens. No, it's it's a fault line. It's just seismic activity that's happening in this area.

Josh:

That's what's so wild about this place is that there's so many other things. And one of the other things that we're not going to talk about is all the paranormal hauntings and different things. Like they have a homestead house there that they don't go near. That's where Sam and Kobe stayed. They've had lots of weird things, but they've had a lot of reactions. People have had to go to the hospital because they've gotten too close or they stayed too long. And they're mainly focusing on the indigenous lore and the UFO style extraterrestrial and potential portals. That's what most of the people are focusing on, at least the the current owners. But it is everything. It's yes to everything. Okay. So another evening when three of their dogs chased a blue orb into the woods, they didn't come back. So Terry followed their barks into the darkness until he heard yelps, then silence. The next morning he found three scorched greasy spots in the grass and the dogs were never seen again.

Travis:

The scorched greasy spots is a I don't know, just it's wild. It's a wild way to just describe maybe that a living thing had been there and evaporated.

Josh:

Yeah, it's graphic for sure. The other thing that happened on this ranch in their ownership was cattle mutilations. I mean, we could do an entire episode just on this. So I'm just gonna zip through it really quick, because it's bonkers. Over the next two years, the Shermans lost nearly 20% of their herd. And these weren't predator kills. Their corpses had clean, bloodless incisions. Internal organs were removed with surgical precision, no tracks, no blood trail, no signs of struggle. Some of the animals suffered from massive trauma, collapsed ribs, broken bones, but with no external damage. Others had eyes, tongues, or rectums removed with a laser. They were sucking butts out. Yeah. But it was like some of the stuff is cauterized, and there's no blood. All the fluids of the entire animal is gone. There's no blood on the ground.

Travis:

Well, that could be, I mean, you can not saying I'm a serial killer or anything, but you could drain the blood from an animal and then just move the body.

Josh:

There's no sign of the body moving. That's the thing. Like this has been gone over so many times and no one knows how it's happening. We have experts, forensic scientists out there trying to figure out how this stuff is happening. And even science today, some of these precision cuts can't be done. And it's just like this is bonkers. And then the body stays there. And normally when something dies, scavengers will come and eat at it. Scavengers don't eat these animals that have been mutilated. Interesting. They will just stay there and the flesh, they don't decompose like normal animals. It will take substantially longer for these animals to decompose.

Travis:

Are they just leaving the animals out there? How do they know it's not decomposing at a normal rate? They've left the animals out there. Just scientifically. They're just like, let's just see where this goes.

Josh:

Yeah, well, I'm sure there's scientific stuff, but also farmers have just left the animals. And what are they going to do? Move a 800-pound cattle. They just leave it there. They're just going to give it back to the land. And I've seen documentaries where people will bring professionals out. Farmers will have scientists come and they'll take them out to these bones and they'll do tests on it and stuff. It's very strange. Very strange stuff. What about bugs? Uh nope. No bugs. They don't decompose like normal. Normally you'd see maggots and different things like that, and there's just nothing. All life leaves these mutilate animals alone. And left the body. Yeah. The other thing I mentioned slightly is the poltergeist activity in the home. Uh-huh. Where you said these little YouTubers stayed. They are. They're very little. Items would vanish from one room and reappear in another. Uh sometimes minutes later, doors would slam on their own. Tools used during ranch work were found missing and later discovered in odd places, like on a roof or inside lock sheds or hundreds of feet away. One day Gwen unpacked groceries and left a set of canned goods on the kitchen counter. And when she turned away for a moment, they vanished. Later she found them rebagged back in the grocery sacks, still sitting in the car.

Travis:

Who hasn't done that before, though?

Josh:

Left the groceries in the car.

Travis:

Forgot they left the groceries, and then they're like, I swear to God, like maybe they have an angry spouse. It was like, I wanted my beans. I need my beans. Well, I swear to God, I put them in the cupboard. Please, God, stop yelling at me. Only to find them in the car, and then you make up the story so that you don't get yelled at anymore.

Josh:

This is like the Betty and Barney with the binocular strap. He made it all up because his binocular strap broke. So there's a lot of stuff. Eventually it was too much for the Shermans. And the stress, the loss of livestock, and the fear, it just pushed the family to a breaking point. Yeah.

Travis:

And they were only here for four years.

Josh:

Yeah. So in 1996, years after they bought the property, they put the ranch up for sale. And they're very transparent. They wanted people to know they didn't want what happened to them to happen to someone else.

Travis:

We've got a real amityville horror house type situation here.

Josh:

Yeah. They didn't want someone to buy the place like, oh, I want to be a little rancher and then come in and just be terrorized. They they legally have to say that they're a cop. Yep. In 1996, as the Sherman family left the ranch behind, Robert Bigelow stepped in. Have we talked about Robert Bigelow before? No. Oh boy. Yeah. Bigelow and NIDS in the black budget era. So Bigelow was a Las Vegas real estate mogul with a deep interest in the paranormal. So Bigelow bought the property not to run cattle, but to study the unexplained. He was in the process of founding Bigelow Aerospace by 1999. And even before that, he was laying the groundwork to fund serious research into space travel and anomalous phenomena. His longstanding interest in UFOs, life after death, and fringe science heavily influenced both his aerospace and paranormal ventures.

Travis:

So should we say what because you introduced a not an agency, but this thing that he had founded, you called it NIDS, right? NIDS?

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

It's the National Institute for Discovery Science. I just feel like we should say that. Yeah. So people aren't thinking, what the fuck did he just say?

Josh:

Did he just say NIDs and record it?

Travis:

Yeah. Oh boy.

Josh:

It does sound kind of like NARDS.

Travis:

Yeah.

Josh:

My NIDs.

Travis:

Like what Wolfman has from Monster Squad. Does he have NIDs? NARDS. Nards. Wolfman's got NARS. They kick him in the balls.

Josh:

So with Bigelow, through his research organization, the National Institute of Science. Discovery Science. That's NIDS. Discovery of Science. He turned Skinwalker Ranch into a private funded laboratory for high strangeness using NIDS. He assembled a team of scientists, military personnel, and intelligence professionals, including biochemist Dr. Colm Kelleher. Their goal was to investigate the bizarre events reported by the Shermans. And this time with structured observations, surveillance cameras, motion sensors, EMF and radiation monitors, and 24-7 data collection. And then, this is why I get giddy and crazy, came the government funding.

Travis:

Because you don't like the government, but you like government money, that government cheese.

Josh:

Mm-hmm. Well, and it's like, is there a conspiracy? What if the government's getting involved? Why is the government getting involved with researching paranormal and high strangeness? So with the help of the Nevada Senator Harry Reid, who shared Bigelow's interest in UFO search, Bigelow secured a $22 million allocation from the Department of Defense. That money quietly funded an even deeper investigation into Skinwalker Ranch and other sites of reported anomalous activity under a program later known as Osap, A W S A P. So what the NIDS team encountered at the ranch was just as strange as what the Shermans had reported. Glowing orbs, mutilated cattle, silent craft hovering in the sky, but they also began to experience new phenomena, ones that directly interfered with their ability to observe. And I've seen this a lot on Skinwalker, where there's a lot of interference. Just things don't work. Batteries die instantly, no signal. It's wild. In one case, with NIDS, Kelleher and another researcher witnessed a glowing orb in the field. Through night vision, they claimed to see a large dark figure emerge from it, crawling as if through a tunnel. A moment later, one of them reported hearing a voice inside his mind, We are watching you. So they installed cameras, which is what I would do, but they caught nothing. Hard drives were wiped out, batteries drained without explanation, even radiation detectors showed brief, intense spikes, and then nothing. It was as if the phenomenon didn't just resist study but actively avoided it. And that's what on the TV show, people spoke of Skinwalker Ranch as if it had a mind of its own, and it was kind of teasing and messing with them on purpose. Some of the researchers experienced physical symptoms like nausea, headaches, bleeding, only to feel fine the moment they left the property. Wild. Others heard massive crashing noises coming from the mesa, like boulders tumbling, but no rocks fell or debris were ever found. So despite years of research, the NIDS team couldn't pin down the source or nature of the phenomena. The data was inconsistent and the events were unpredictable. And eventually the government quietly ended its involvement and NIDS disbanded soon after.

Travis:

So now we're going to get into what is called trademarked weirdness. Enter Brandon Fugel. This is going to cover from 2016 to the present. So Fugel is the new owner of this place. After years of silence from Skinwalker Ranch, the new owner quietly stepped in. So in 2016, Utah businessman Brandon Fugel purchased a property through a company called Adamantium. Fuck yeah. Yeah, that's a cool name. Yeah, the bones that are inside Wolverine, man. Adamantium. Yeah. He knows what he's doing. Yeah, he knows what he's doing. He knows. He knows exactly who he's targeting with that sort of name. Yep. At first his identity was kept hidden, but in 2020 he came forward revealing that he had not only acquired the land, but was actively investigating it. Fugel, who had made his fortune in real estate and tech, took a very different approach than his predecessor. He wasn't interested in secrecy. He brought in scientists, military experts, and technical teams, outfitted the ranch with advanced surveillance systems, and partnered with the History Channel to produce The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch.

Josh:

Boah boom boah, Josh's favorite show. Well, and that's the thing is Bigelow, I mean, he did all those years of research. He hasn't released any of that research. So Brandon Fogle starting from scratch. Release those D discoveries, right?

Travis:

Because Discovery Science. Yep. That's what D stands for. Discovery. Uh huh. So while the show added drama, the experiments were real and in many cases strange. So some of the findings were the triangle, a specific airspace above the ranch where anomalies occur most often. Rockets launched vertically through it would frequently veer off course or fail, which we saw in the little feature ad that we watched about Skinwalker Ranch.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

Several launches malfunctioned at exactly 31 feet in the air, prompting deeper investigation. 31 feet, weird. Yeah. Prime number. Hmm. Is there something there?

Josh:

Mathematically, 31. They realized fairly early on in their experiments that when they shot rockets off, strange things would happen.

Travis:

So there were also some unusual signals. A consistent radio frequency at 1.6 gigahertz was detected, stretching from the ground to nearly a mile high. Another signal at 919 MHz was picked up during drilling operations and other experiments. These weren't background noise, they were strong, persistent, and unexplained. So there were some aerial phenomena, high-speed footage have captured what appeared to be a blob-like distortion in the sky above a rocket just before it exploded. LIDAR scans of the same area later revealed a black void absorbing or deflecting laser mapping, almost as if something was physically there but invisible.

Josh:

That one was crazy. So they use LIDAR, they use light to scan the area, and there's an area that was completely black in their data. Like you could see the map, you could see the whole area, and this blackness basically, this area ate the light. The light was gone.

Travis:

Yeah. So powerful that light can't even escape it. Yeah. Actually, that's like the opposite, because light wasn't escaping it. It was just surrounding it. So it was like an object. It was like hitting a big steel ball, but it wasn't absorbing any of that heat, right? It was just going around it.

Josh:

Yeah, there was a ring around this area that was very strange. And they're still investigating it. They're trying to figure it out, but they're finding things under the ground, on the ground, and above the ground.

Travis:

So now we're going to get into subsurface discoveries. Nice segue, Josh. So drilling into the Mesa encountered a hard, impenetrable object roughly 270 feet below the surface. Samples retrieved nearby contained thorium and europium, metallic elements used in aerospace manufacturing, but not typically found in that concentration locally. Some scans suggested tunnel-legged voids or possibly engineered structures beneath the surface.

Josh:

Ooh. That's what I'm I think it's engineered. And I don't know if it's alien or maybe Bigelow when he was there made some kind of fort inside the mesa. I don't know. Because there's definitely, if you look at where they're drilling, it looks like it was kind of caved in.

Travis:

That's so cute.

Josh:

Yeah. I mean, we don't know what Bigelow did. Just like uh a little space just for me. Yeah. But it having these two extremely rare So why don't they dig down there and find out? They've been trying, but they get stopped every single time. Weird things happen where like this dig when they found these metals, they couldn't dig anymore because the metal was there. There was something blocking them. Aliens? Yes. But maybe no. But maybe yes. But yeah, that's an ongoing thing that is very frustrating for them. They just can't figure it out. They've had multiple different drill teams come in and they just run into issues.

Travis:

So there have been some environmental reactions. We watched this on this little featurette. Ceremonial drumming session performed by indigenous guests cause the temperature of the Mesa Stone Circle to rise significantly. When the drumming stopped, the heat anomaly vanished. This temperature fluctuation was captured on thermal imaging. Kind of cool to see this like weird activity happening with this very, you know, kind of like lo-fi earthy drum circle. Drum circle, sure.

Josh:

Yeah. Yeah. And at the same time, they saw a UAP, a light, or two lights, I think it was, fly straight into the mesa where that stone circle is, where the natives, the indigenous people, said that that is where a portal is.

Travis:

Super cess. Suspicious. So there have been some surveillance incidents during one rocket experiment after a UAP was observed, an unmarked helicopter flew directly over the triangle. The aircraft didn't broadcast a transponder signal, which is a violation of the FAA rules. It hovered, circled, and left. No one on the team had notified anyone of the experiment.

Josh:

That was crazy. That was an episode on The Secrets of Skinwalker Ranch. They were doing these experiments, and then a freaking military like black hawk, no lights on, started flying around them. And they've had lots of different times where they're being surveyed, basically. It hovered around and hung out for a little bit and then it flew away. Brandon Fogle is a very powerful man in Utah, so he got a hold of the senator, the governor, he got a hold of all these people trying to figure out and no one He's politically jacked. Yeah. And no one could get any answers.

Travis:

Because he's got a lot of money.

Josh:

Yeah. But having that much money and not being able to get answers, and the people in charge of the state not being able to get the answers either, that's wild and frustrating. Sure. And dangerous. It didn't show up on radar, so they had radar jacking. Like, I mean, it was weird.

Travis:

Just jacking that radar.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Travis:

So here's some other observation. GPS devices failed or gave conflicting data. Drones lost signal or crashed. LIDAR and photogrammetry. Scans showed phantom structures. I've never heard that or read that word before. Showed phantom structures and voids. Some researchers began to speculate about the possibility of a traversable wormhole or unknown technology in the area. So despite all this high-tech equipment, the team often encountered the same problem as those before them. The more they investigated, the less clear things became. Even with cameras rolling, experts on site, and experiments repeated in controlled settings, the phenomena remained unpredictable and possibly intelligent in nature. Something is happening at Skinwalker Ranch, whether it's natural, paranormal, or engineered, no one seems to know for sure.

Josh:

Yeah. It just seems like the ranch is toying with them and they're not able to get any data because all their data is different every single time they do it.

Travis:

So what do we make at Skinwalker Ranch, Josh?

Josh:

Well, it's been called cursed, haunted, a portal to who knows where. Whoa. But it's also just a ranch in Utah with a long history of strange stuff happening. Some of it sounds like science fiction, some of it sounds like local legend, and some of it most just can't explain. But what we do know is that the people have been trying to figure this place out for a very long time. And they're still trying. Whether you buy into it or not, it's one of the weirdest, most talked about pieces of land on the planet. And I am in it for the long haul. Long haul.

Travis:

I'm learning so much on this podcast, like the different ways to pronounce certain words. I think you said Mugle when you said. I did.

Josh:

But I'm gonna I'm gonna edit all that out and make me.

Travis:

Give it in, give it in. It's funny. It's great. It gives us a little peek into who we are and our personalities. Yeah. It does. Leave all the trash in. Release it raw. No way. Raw dog these episodes, Josh.

Josh:

Yeah, most people won't know this, but when I speak, I have very long pauses between sentences or words. So I have to shrink that down and edit it.

Travis:

I keep looking at my watch, like trying to hurry it up because I am a pretty fast talker.

Josh:

And you're a busy guy. You got places to go. Places to go. Zip, zip, zip, zip. Yep. Let's go. Yep. But I speak like this.

Travis:

Oh, you're like the sloth from Zootopia. Zootopia. Yeah. Where it's like, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on. I'll finish the sentence for you.

Josh:

Yeah. So that's what I do. I'm afraid to be a guest on other shows because my true identity will be found out.

Travis:

You're afraid that they're not going to edit down.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

And then cut all the pauses.

Josh:

I'll be a guest if I can edit myself.

Travis:

Yeah. Really, these episodes that we're recording are like four hours long. You guys get a very abbreviated version of it.

Josh:

The same amount of content. Just taking the spaces out. Yep. Basically. So when it comes to aliens, yes, maybe no. And maybe poltergeists or cryptids, yes, maybe no. On the cryptid side, I'm a little skeptical. I'm like a maybe. On the poltergeist, I'm a maybe to a no.

Travis:

Okay. You're ruling on all of them.

Josh:

Oh, yeah. On the alien side, I'm definitely saying yes. Okay. I mean, it's weird shit happening all over, but with the aliens, that one is what piques my interest and what I've looked into the most.

Travis:

Is someone stuck in a mud hole outside of your house? That's what it sounds like. Yeah, it's like someone's just doing burnouts trying to get out of mud. Yeah, it's all day and all night. Sucks. Well, maybe get rid of that moat that you have in front of your house, Josh. To keep the feds out.

Josh:

Cheese goblins. Cheese goblins in. In.

unknown:

Yeah.

Josh:

I've been breeding cheese monsters. Uh okay. Yeah, sure. Yeah. So yeah, I just with the alien aspect, I think, yes. There's just too much weirdness. And they've caught it multiple times on video. And you know what? We can even say portals. And that kind of correlates with aliens. They've seen it happen. They've seen ships fly into the mesa and then disappear and then fly out as if there was a portal. So I would say absolutely aliens. And I'm excited for them to figure it all out and for me to get all the knowledge.

Travis:

Which is probably part of the slow disclosure that the government is I'm realizing so much about you. If I just let you talk, you just keep going.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

Very slowly, but I do. Yep. I just stare at you. This is like a trick you learn if you're in therapy, that if a therapist is very quiet, you just try to fill that space. And I find that very dangerous.

Josh:

Oh, yeah. At least I'm not talking about myself. That's like all you're doing. Oh, that's exactly what you're doing. Me, what I think. Uh-huh. Yeah. What do you think though?

Travis:

Okay. So I guess on those three categories that you put out there, I'm not going to call them cryptids because I don't think they're cryptids. I think that it's more of a supernatural. That's what I would categorize it.

Josh:

But as skinwalker.

Travis:

Yeah, supernatural. I guess poltergeist also supernatural and then alien. So as far as the indigenous war of it, I am a fantasy person and I think there's something very beautiful in the idea that somebody had taken on this curse to defend their land and protect kind of like the last FU to whoever was coming into this territory. Yeah. That was occupied for thousands of years. So I think there's something very beautiful about that. So I am more inclined to believe in that because I am such a like we talked about this on the pod. I'm such a little fantasy boy. I love that idea. So I'm like a very close to yes on the the lore of it. On the lore of it or the existence that it's real. The existence of just of a skinwalker in the like Navajo lore. I am very close to a yes on that. Just because I want to believe in magic. I think that there's just something so beautiful about that.

Speaker:

Okay.

Travis:

Poltergeist. No. I'm firmly in the camp. No, I don't think poltergeists or ghosts exist.

Josh:

I think that's a we talked about that in the our first episode. We're just we haven't been swayed.

Travis:

It's not for me, dog. Yeah. I think ghost movies are scary. I think ghosts, the idea of ghosts are scary, like unfinished business, is like one of my biggest fears in my personal life. I don't like to leave things unfinished. But then onto the aliens of it, I think this is a very compelling. I like the research and the time that's being put into this, the resources. They have a lot of money that are going into this, and it's not government funded. So we are seeing these results in real time with the show that I haven't seen yet. Maybe I'll this is uh me convincing myself to watch the show. Yeah, do it. So I'm like at a probably 80% to a yes. Cool on aliens.

Josh:

Yeah, Skinwalker reminds me similar to what we talked about in the last episode of Close Encounters of the Skywatchers, where it's not government funded research. So we're getting it in real time, and they're doing it scientifically. They're not going at it like the YouTubers showing up, you know, where they're like, well my gosh, they're not emotionally attached or anything. They're trying to figure out answers and they're doing their due diligence to document and record all that data. So cool. That's by far the highest I've heard on aliens, yes.

Travis:

Mm-hmm on you. Maybe even higher than 80%. I mean, if I watch the show, I might push that needle a little closer. But yeah, I mean 80% is uh a big deal for me.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

Big deal for take it easy, buddy. Podcasting. Yeah, I know, right? Big deal for broadcasting. What a day for what a day. Yeah. Thousand subscribers. We've been doing this for about a year. I get to an 80%. That was the mark that you were gonna believe. Yeah, it was a thousand. It was a thousand. Magical number.

Josh:

Like once I hit a thousand, I'll say yes.

Travis:

This is me going Super Saiyan. Yeah, yeah. Over one thousand.

Josh:

So yeah, if you guys like this or if you liked any of the other episodes, definitely give us a rating or a review and tell your friends. The rating and reviews will help us kind of go up in the algorithm so other people can see what we're doing and we work really hard for the show.

Travis:

Go to our fan mail.

Josh:

Yeah, go to our fan mail in our show notes. You can talk to us directly. We can't talk back, but we could Oh, we'll talk back, but we'll do it on the show. Yeah, we'll do it on the show. Talk back. That's right. Yeah.

Travis:

Say something mean. I dare you.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

Do it. Don't don't actually say something mean. Don't don't do that. If you're gonna take the time to say something, just make it nice. Just say something nice.

Josh:

Yeah. Or you could ask us personal questions or questions about the show or something.

Travis:

Why did Travis say foreskin twice?

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

Because it's funny.

Josh:

Okay.

Travis:

I was actually gonna ask that question. I'm here for the lulls.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

All right. So that's our show. Oh, wait. Oh, but wait, there's more.

Josh:

There is more. As always. We have our baseline quiz. What is this?

Travis:

Oh my god. We kind of laid the groundwork with your moat and keeping the things in with what we're gonna talk about on our next episode. So what is it?

Josh:

So we don't know what our next topic is gonna be until halfway through the recording or until we open up the quiz. And this next topic is Kelly Hopkinsville Goblins.

Travis:

Yeah, hopefully there's a cheddar goblin here. I think they're part of the same family. Yeah, all goblins come from the same gob god.

Josh:

Yeah, it it has a high level of husbandry involved, but yeah, they're all related.

Travis:

This episode will come out close to Halloween. So, hey, happy Halloween, everybody! Hey ghosts and ghouls out there.

Josh:

I'm gonna be a cheese goblin. Uh cheddar goblin, yeah. Cheddar Goblin. What's another cheese? Greer. Greer goblin. Yeah. There's a whole string of cheese goblins string cheese goblins. There we go. Yeah. Well done. You landed the plane. That's exciting. This is a Halloween episode that we're gonna be doing next one. Uh huh. That's fun.

Travis:

That's fun. Spooky. Yeah.

Josh:

So this topic I kind of learned when we did the Flatwoods monster. I stumbled upon it while doing some of my own research. I read one paragraph, so that's all I know. Okay, so Kelly Hopkinsville goblins. More than one.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Josh:

So like I said, I only know just a paragraph worth of information here. So let's start this quiz. In what year did the Kelly Hopkinsville encounter take place? Is it A 1942? Mm-hmm. B 1955. Gotta be. C 1971. Definitely that year. Or D 1997. Oh boy. I'm fucked. I'm gonna say 1995.

Travis:

1995's not even an option.

Josh:

Or 1955.

Travis:

Boy, Josh is going rogue.

Josh:

So I'm gonna say, yeah. B 1955.

Travis:

I'm gonna say 1942 after um that is the year we entered World War II. I'm gonna take that off and I'm gonna say 1971.

Josh:

Okay. All right. We'll see. All right. Next question. What state did the encounter happen in? Is it A, West Virginia? Gotta be. B Texas. Oh no. C Kentucky or D, Arkansas. Oh man, Arkansas. I fuck. It's all of them. Has to be. I am gonna say on three.

Travis:

One, two, three. West Virginia. Kentucky. Ah, interesting. That's how we should do these.

Josh:

No. It'd be horrible to edit.

Travis:

It would be so funny. No. West Virginia is what I answer.

Josh:

You're saying West Virginia, I'm saying Kentucky. Okay. Okay, next one. How tall did witnesses claim the creatures were? Is it A three foot tall, B five foot tall, C eight foot?

Travis:

Oh, that's too tall for a goblin. Or D ten foot. That's like four goblins in a trench coat.

Josh:

Yeah. So goblins are small, right?

Travis:

I think so. Like you don't say you're a giant goblin. You say, come here, you little goblin.

Josh:

Yeah. Look at the goblins on uh Lord of the Rings. They're the size of a hobbit.

Travis:

Yeah. Look at the goblins on the Lord of the Rings.

Josh:

I do. Hummadah hubadah hubadah. Oh no. Are we going down this route again? You're gonna Google sexy goblins. Look at the goblins on that thing. Jeez.

Travis:

Well, I guess Travis is gonna be a sexy goblin for Halloween. Oh man, I'm I'm a sexy goblin right now. So what do you say? I say three feet tall.

Josh:

That's what I was thinking too.

Travis:

It's probably wrong. It's probably ten foot. I don't know.

Josh:

It's I am who knows?

Travis:

Who knows how those West Virginians describe their goblins?

Josh:

Careful. Don't get cocky. All right, next question. What strange behavior did the creatures reportedly show? A floating instead of walking, B teleporting into locked rooms.

Travis:

Oh, like nightcrawler.

Josh:

C speaking in high-pitched tones, or D scurrying across the ceilings.

Travis:

Ooh. Fuck that. That's like the worst part of a possession. Uh okay.

Josh:

I'm gonna say the scurrying.

Travis:

I am too, because when I think goblins, I think of them as scurriers.

Josh:

Yeah. They did that in Lord of the Rings.

Travis:

Yeah.

Josh:

Oh man. Just crawling all over the place. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That kind of like stopped my heart a little bit. Like it seriously spooked me. I went there.

Travis:

Just imagine you're laying on your back in the middle of the night and you woke up and then there's a goblin on your seat looking down at you.

Josh:

Scurrying.

Travis:

You want some jitter? That's what it says.

Josh:

Okay.

Travis:

Hey, you want some jitter?

Josh:

Next question. How many people were present at the Sutton farmhouse during the event? A2, B six, C eleven, or D seventeen? They sound like battleship coordinates when you say it like that. They do a little bit. Farm out. I mean, for me, eleven and seventeen is just a ridiculous number.

Travis:

No, no, a farmhouse? Are you kidding? No. Yes? That's what like farmers do, is they just create a bunch of little workers. I'm gonna say six. Okay. I'm gonna say my favorite number, eleven. Oh, okay. I didn't know that about you. Sounds neat. Mm-hmm. And now I revealed it to our thousand listeners.

Josh:

Mm-hmm. Last question. What phrase became popular after this encounter? Is it A, beam me up? B, take me to your leader, C, I want to believe, or D, little green men?

Travis:

I'm gonna say little green men, goblins. Yep. Because be me up is a Star Trek reference. Yeah. Take me to your leader is I don't know, something fucking else. I want to believe is X Files. That's like the tagline.

Josh:

What is Take Me to Your Leader?

Travis:

I don't know. I'd have I'd have to look it up.

Josh:

Huh. It's probably like a 1950s movie or something.

Travis:

Well, we'll talk about this. Let's let's submit our answers.

Josh:

Okay. So we will submit, see our accuracy. Oh, in what year did the Kelly Hopkins encounter take place? I said 1955.

Travis:

That was correct. Guess what? What did you say? 1971.

Josh:

Like an idiot. Okay. Next one. What state did the encounter happen in? I said Kentucky. You said West Virginia. Like an idiot. I know that because you were very cocky about it. And it was Kentucky is the correct answer.

Travis:

Yep. So again, I'm performing like a Travis.

Josh:

Yeah. How tall did witnesses claim the creatures were? We both said three feet tall. That is correct. Little guys. Little guys. Which would line up potentially with little green men. Yeah. Next one, what strange behavior did the creatures reportedly show? Oh, thank God. I said scurrying across the ceilings.

Travis:

I said scurrying across the ceiling.

Josh:

Floating instead of walking. Which is still spooky, but not the ceiling thing. Yeah. Not as bad.

Travis:

Not as bad.

Josh:

So we both got that wrong. Next one, how many people were present at the Sutton farmhouse during the event? I said six. What did you say? Lucky number 11. Woo-woo!

Travis:

Finally my lucky number paid off. So it was number 11. Right after this quiz, I can go back to letting me down. 11 people. That's that's a lot.

Josh:

That's the idea. Just to view something, to experience something.

Travis:

Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of farmers have a lot of kids. That is a known thing.

Josh:

Okay. Last one. What phrase became popular after this encounter? We both said little green men, and that is correct.

Travis:

So take me to your leader is a science fiction cartoon catchphrase said by an extraterrestrial alien who's just landed on Earth in a spacecraft. So the first human they happen to meet in cartoons of them is frequently varied for comic effects, such as a pun on the phrase suit the setting, or the alien addressing an animal or object they assume is an intelligent earthling. So it's just like a funny little thing that they did in cartoons.

Josh:

Okay. Well, this is cool. We gotta learn where little green men come from, that saying. Similar to Kenneth Arnold with Flying Saucer. So we're getting some origins. You love origin stories. I actually do. I do too. Yeah. This will be fun. Well, cool. I'm excited about this next episode. Thank you for listening, and we will chat at you next time. Okay. Bye. Bye.

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Josh Snodgrass

Co-host
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Travis Wright

Co-host
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Jordan Blair

Producer