Aliens? Yes! But Maybe No

Immaculate Constellation for Dummies

• Aliens? Yes! But Maybe No • Episode 15

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The veil of secrecy has been lifted on one of the government's most classified UAP research programs. Welcome to our deep dive into the "Immaculate Constellation" – a shadowy, unacknowledged special access program that's been studying and attempting to reverse engineer non-human technology right under congressional noses.

This episode unpacks the explosive 12-page document entered into congressional record during the 2024 hearings, revealing a coordinated effort within the Pentagon to collect data on UAPs without proper oversight. We examine the document's six sections, from information collection methods to the classification of different craft types, including spheres, discs, triangles, and the particularly unsettling "irregular organic" objects that cause physical and psychological effects on witnesses.

The most compelling aspects of this revelation are the detailed military encounters. Flight deck personnel report mysterious spherical objects that emit light without illumination and have surfaces "roiling like the sun," while fighter pilots describe being "boxed in" by formations of metallic orbs that forced them out of mission areas. These aren't fringe accounts – they're officially documented incidents that the government has been quietly studying for decades.

What makes this particularly significant is the global dimension. The document confirms that nations worldwide are experiencing similar phenomena, primarily around military installations and sensitive research facilities. Each country has its own secret programs studying these objects while simultaneously managing public perception of the issue – raising profound questions about transparency in our democratic systems.

Whether you're a longtime follower of UAP developments or just curious about what our government really knows, this episode provides clarity on one of the most significant document leaks in recent history. The truth isn't just out there – it's being documented, classified, and studied by programs that officially "don't exist."

Subscribe now and join us next week for our exploration of historical UFO sky battles that have been documented throughout human history. The phenomenon isn't new – it's just finally coming to light.

**This episode was recorded early 2025. The anonymous person who was responsible for whistleblowing the Immaculate Constellation document has since come forward. You can watch part one of the three part interview on Jeremy Corbell's youtube channel or listen on his and George Knapp's podcast called Weaponized**

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Josh:

Aliens Aliens, yes.

Travis:

But maybe no. Welcome to the show. Aliens, yes, but maybe no, with Josh and Travis. I'm Travis, I'm Josh. This is an otherworldly podcast, as ambiguous as our title. Now I gotta say right from the jump, we just downloaded the song to our soundboard and so we gotta hear this song in real time, and I am so pumped for it. I love our theme song so much I'm gonna make it my ringtone I've listened to over 100 times because I'm pretty excited about it. Yeah, it rules yeah so pleased with it.

Josh:

That was jordan jeez.

Travis:

That was my wife there's nothing that she can't do she also made our cover art and she's our researcher yeah, she's actually a ventriloquist and she's actually doing this podcast downstairs and all we're doing is moving our mouths, but because it's an audio podcast, you don't get to see it. So this is Jordan. She's just doing our voices too. Josh and I just show up together. It gives us an opportunity to drink and then just flap our mouths around.

Josh:

I mean it works for me, I enjoy it.

Travis:

Yeah, you do.

Josh:

I don't know if I would have the time or patience to put our dossiers together and do the research. So I don't think this podcast would exist without her. So we've kind of been doing a I don't know, it's like a three-part series, mini series. We did the congressional hearings, we did kind of a quick recap of the first one and then we did the second one, the same episode, and then we did another episode of the third one, the one that happened in 2024. Yeah, in that 2024 hearing there was something called the Immaculate Consolation.

Travis:

Something dropped yeah.

Josh:

Something dropped. It's pretty crazy. I was banned from learning anything about it until I got this dossier, and it's pretty cool. There's a lot of crazy things in it, especially since it's now in the congressional books. This is all. It's nothing. I haven't heard before.

Travis:

but knowing that We've talked a lot about almost everything that's within this bit of information. Saying bit is doing a lot of heavy lifting, but we've talked about bits and pieces of this throughout the course of the podcast so far. So within this document they talk about the different types of craft that have been spotted and the way they move and how quickly or how slowly and methodically they move through the atmosphere yeah, if you've watched ancient aliens thoroughly, you've heard all the stuff.

Josh:

If you watch ancient aliens in its entirety, you've watched Ancient Aliens thoroughly, you've heard all the stuff.

Travis:

If you've watched Ancient Aliens in its entirety. You've heard most of the things we talked about on this podcast.

Josh:

That's true, but this report was written by an anonymous Department of Defense employee, which is really interesting. But it was after years of investigating unidentified anomalous, so it used to be aerial. But they're like oh, it's not just in the air Unidentified anomalous phenomena or UAP, mysterious technologies and potential non-human intelligence. So this report, this document.

Josh:

That phrasing itself I think is very interesting. The report approved for release by the State Department was added to congressional record in the November 2024 hearing led by Representative Nancy Mace, called UAP Exposing the Truth. This report that was given to them as a 12-page report claims there's a secret program named the Immaculate Consolation that has been studying UAPs in secret, but the Pentagon denies it exists and they even had a spokesperson say there's no record of this program.

Travis:

And that person is the person that said there's no record of this. Said this in a congressional hearing, essentially perjuring in themselves, and this person should be tried, but nothing has been done.

Josh:

I'm just blown away that the Pentagon can do all this stuff, have all these secret black ops organizations inside the Pentagon that no one has access to, not even auditors. It just it blows me away. They're just. They have just a license to kill and no questions asked. And they, it seems as though they're just kind of like laughing at Congress.

Travis:

It's because the military has gone unchecked for so long and we keep giving them money in the vein of well, this is protecting our national interests.

Josh:

Not a lot of money, right.

Travis:

Just like you know whatever you got lying around. Yeah, Congress is just digging through their couch cushions and holding bake sales, you know, to raise money for the military. Yeah, so it's not a lot of money, but that money is going to the military. I mean, we're talking trillions of dollars. It's mind boggling.

Josh:

It's hard for me to comprehend billions of dollars. Yeah, I don't even want to try to even think about trillions. It is. It really is so this spokesperson? I didn't know so. Is there other congressional hearings going on other than these three?

Travis:

During this congressional hearing, and he didn't name names, so I don't remember if this person was in some of these other congressional hearings that we had watched, or maybe something that we didn't, but he had said that there's no and they have documentation from like 1991.

Travis:

That's what a huge chunk of this Immaculate Constellation information is derived from is from 1991 to now this person said the government has no involvement and does not agree that there are non-human technology here on earth, that anything that we're seeing is probably created by something here I would say the same thing if I had non-human technology.

Josh:

I would like no, that doesn't exist, silly I maybe, I don't know. I mean if the fact that we can say that we wouldn't do that or would do, that it's kind of Like no, that doesn't exist.

Travis:

Silly, Maybe, I don't know. I mean, if the fact that we can say that we wouldn't do that or would do that it's kind of like, well, if I won a billion dollars, I would be very smart about it. You know, nobody can really know until you get that billion dollars, but then you talk to people or you hear about people that have won the lottery and it like absolutely destroyed their life.

Josh:

Yeah, I always said that if I want a ridiculous amount of money, I would not touch it for a year. That would be, so hard. But I know I would not do that I would get a new car. I would. I mean I would, it would start slow, you would say like well.

Travis:

I'm just going to pay off my medical bills.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

I'm going to buy my house outright, so I own that and I don't have to pay a mortgage, and yeah, I'll just put the rest and it'll just be like walking around money and then suddenly all of your teeth are gold and you're walking on stilts and you get all this like weird ass stuff and you're like, oh, it's all practical.

Josh:

I mean the size of your house and your front yard.

Travis:

Yeah, that puts out Kool-Aid.

Josh:

Yep, okay, let's get back on track.

Travis:

Oh, you don't want to change the name of this podcast to to millionaires, yes, but maybe no, an ambiguous podcast about winning the lottery?

Josh:

nope, with josh and travis. What would I do? Yeah, that probably has existed at some point. I would. I would do this if I had money. Just someone, it's just somebody's like yep which is fine, it's fun to do, but no one. It's like talking about dreams at night. No one really cares. Nobody cares, no. So this author, who did this whole document, has remained anonymous and the details have been super scarce. They even were trying to figure out in the hearing.

Travis:

Well, this is another thing like and later on in this dossier we have Jordan has some researchers notes that attribute an author to this, and when you're talking to like Schellenberger or not, you like the royal, you whoever's interviewing Schellenberger, he knows who it is. People that are in these congressional hearings, they all know who the whistleblower is. You ask Jeremy Corbell and he seems to know George Knapp. They know who it is. So it's like one of those secrets that everybody knows but won't say in a public setting.

Josh:

Yeah, I agree, agree. I mean I think it's more serious than that, you know, with some of these people because it could destroy their lives and they could be in prison I mean it has, it has some yeah, there has been rumors that it was grush david grush, yeah, that wrote this, and I heard those rumors right after like the day I watched it, but really it was unknown who did it he was like the the boss well, he is. I mean, yeah, he's, he was a big dog.

Josh:

He was, yeah, he was the guy that he went and interviewed every single person and found out everyone's secrets in the government, and that's what he was doing. He's basically doing like an information audit of what everyone knows and he had highest clearance. And then he's like whoa, this is bad.

Travis:

So it's not too far afield to say that it might be him, but we're not, nobody knows for sure, and we're not here to dox anybody.

Josh:

Yeah, and I think that I mean in the document itself. It mentions that a lot of this stuff is not public. That means it's classified. So whoever leaked this needs to be protected. If it is Grush which very well could be he needs to be protected because he did something illegal potentially. So let's get into this. So this is a document. Section one of this 12 page document is titled unacknowledged special access program.

Travis:

Yeah, and I believe there are six sections.

Josh:

Yeah, the seventh one is a very funny one. We'll get to that. So this one is called the unacknowledged special access program, immaculate Constellation. So Immaculate Constellation is a USAP unacknowledged special access program established after public disclosure of AATIP and OSAP the programs by Lou Elizondo in 2017. It utilizes a network of SAP's special access platforms to collect imagery intelligence on UAPs. This program this is what the document is saying this program operates outside legal congressional oversight and actively seeks to reverse engineer UAP technologies. So, right off the bat, just instantly hey, these people have this program and they're doing it without your knowledge. Literally, an unacknowledged special access program, a black op program.

Travis:

A need to know and you don't need to know.

Josh:

Yeah, and they're saying a program doesn't exist and then it does. Yeah, there's so much.

Travis:

I know it's very dense. You're doing a good job of getting through it, but this is a very dense topic full of a lot of information.

Josh:

And each piece of information has a whole bunch of information behind that as well. So it's like the document itself isn't that large, but the wording and what it means and what it could mean for something else.

Travis:

It's like 12 pages in the tiniest font.

Josh:

It is tiny.

Travis:

There's a lot of stuff on the page here.

Josh:

Yeah, I recommend you can actually find this at congressgov. Yeah, they have all the documentation there. Yeah, so basically, right off the bat, this first section of this document says this exists Immaculate constellation is a real thing. They've been actively reverse engineering UAP technologies and they've been tracking them and they've been doing it underneath your noses, without telling you.

Travis:

So when we get into that a little later the reverse engineering I've got some things that I'd like to talk about.

Josh:

Do you want to talk about the second section? So that was the first section. It's pretty basic. That was just a quick summary. I highly recommend, if you're listening, check it out. It took me 20 minutes to read and I got a lot of information. It summarization of it. This is just covering off the ways in which all of this information has been gathered.

Travis:

So they use infrared IRs, forward-looking infrared FLIR, flir, full motion video or FMVs. They use thermal and still photography. And then, through the course of this research, our researchers found that there were things that other means that were used to gather this information that wasn't included in the big four, and that's signals intelligence and that's analyzing electronic signals like communications radar etc. So blips and beeps and stuff like that Measurement and signature intelligence, or MASINT M-A-S-I-N-T is the acronym analyzing physical characteristics like heat signatures, electromagnetic radiation patterns or chemical compositions. And another thing that was mentioned was overhead persistent infrared or OPIR, a system of satellites and airborne platforms used to detect and track missiles from launch to interception. So that's basically what that second section is talking about.

Josh:

Yes, right, it covers all the ways, which is really good to know that our government knows how to track this stuff. So they have experience, they have done trial and error, they figured out what to do. But the other thing that was in this section that I thought was really interesting is that they explained that they kind of have like a big database, but it is scattered across all the organizations and services, making it fragmented and no one owns all of the information.

Travis:

Yep, but that is part of their imagery intelligence, or IMINT, which collects the data sets available to the Department of Defense and those are reviewed for this report. They take all of this information and then they're basically creating one more concise narrative.

Josh:

And that is the Immaculate Consolation. Yeah, so it does exist.

Travis:

There is one database with all of this but it was hidden, yeah, or maybe not hidden, but just put in like a spam folder and you're like this seems interesting. We're just going to collect all the information we have. No information is bad information, which is a thing that I use at work. I want to know everything about my job and then I will determine what I need to distribute out to my because you're a control freak I a little bit, yeah, yeah because you were hurt as a child. I mean who was it?

Travis:

you're grasping at straws as much control, we're getting into some deep stuff here.

Josh:

This is in the Immaculate Consolation. They have a section just about you, just Travis.

Travis:

Wright oh man, I should have done more research, you should have. I think I blacked out when I got to that section.

Josh:

So this section two actually goes over nine examples of UAP encounters.

Travis:

Yeah, it talks about it, but we have that later in the dossier.

Josh:

Yeah, it talks about it but we have that later in the dossier. Yeah, we'll read it so that was section two.

Travis:

I mean, I could really quickly go over the nine, maybe not. Maybe this might be something.

Josh:

Yeah, it's a little too much. I just recommend that you guys look at the document. We're doing immaculate constellation for dummies right now. Very much so we're just filling the end.

Travis:

I'm just going to list what they are. Fill in the end I'm I'm just going to list what they are cuboid formation of metallic orbs. So there's a document incident of that fast mover observed transiting over sensitive facilities. There's an instance uh, these are all part of these witnessed events yeah intelligence vessels positioned to collect on reproduction vehicle.

Travis:

equilateral triangle UAP tails unwitting vessel. Large disc using clouds as concealment, and it goes on and on, like boomerang UAP observed by pilot and sensor suite. Jellyfish UAP crosses US-Mexico border. These are just these documented instances that are within section two. So those plus the ways in which some of these things are tracked.

Josh:

Yeah, and then going into section three, this is titled Defense Human Intelligence Reporting. This section uses over 400 defense reports on encounters with UAP UFOs by government personnel from 1991 to 2022. Right, the most common UAP shapes reported were spheres, orbs, disks or saucers, ovals or tic-tacs. Were spheres, orbs, discs or saucers, ovals or tic-tacs, triangles, boomerang or arrowhead, and irregular and organic. So the triangles, boomerangs and arrowhead shapes were by far the rarest and the spheres are the most common. So the common observable behaviors and characteristics of UAP and UFO shapes. The author goes through each common UAP and observables, like the speed, the size, the signatures, the colors, the surface details so signatures that would be like what sort of output they have.

Travis:

So like we talk a lot when we're looking at things that run on combustible engines, like heat signature, right like jets will put off a heat signature. Anything that is burning something is going to have a byproduct of that right, right.

Josh:

And then it goes on with behaviors, atmospheric phenomena, biological effects and unique emissions, and Elizondo has gone on some interviews and he's mentioned that these are what we look for to determine if this is an actual UAP or if this is a non-human intelligent thing, and it has to hit a certain amount of these to be a UAP basically. So it goes on in the same section, in section three, and it kind of goes over what each one of these are. So the sphere and orbs Like finer defining.

Josh:

Yeah, it goes over and it kind of describes and defines what it looks like, where it usually flies, what it sounds like, how it flies.

Travis:

it sounds like how it flies you have one that sounded the scariest to you I mean the irregular and organic.

Josh:

Oh my god man, that freaked me out I mean because we all know what the oval and tic-tac ones are. We've discussed those kinds before. The discs and saucers we've all seen every alien movie ever. Yeah, spheres and orbs, those are pretty common. If you don't, I mean these, the spheres and orbs. They kind of just hover in a stationary place but they can zip off pretty quick. You can feel uneasy around it and your electronics will usually malfunction and those kind of things.

Travis:

But the irregular ones, like the jellyfish video that we talked about, so if any of you have seen the movie Jordan Peele's Nope, that is what I would describe Like that sense of dread that I felt watching that movie when that alien finally revealed itself Like it was a ship, like a disc, but then it revealed itself that that was an actually organic thing flying around that had traveled through the cosmos. Spoiler alert for no, sorry. That is what freaked me out, because the people that witness these specific forms of phenomena have a physical reaction to it, like they feel nauseous or a sense of dread or smells. They're physically affected by it and that's what freaks me out the most I mean, and they're just creepy, like the like you said.

Josh:

I mean it's just kind of like the worst case scenario of what you would imagine alien life would look like. They kind of call it brain, like a floating brain or jellyfish, because it kind of has like the nerves that the brain has in the spinal cord, but without, without the human flesh. So it's just kind of like this weird floating brain jellyfish thing and they're bioluminescent and they kind of shift in color. They kind of have like a fluid like surface. They can, yeah, their sizes vary, which is weird.

Travis:

But the fact that people identify them as organic freaks me out Like that. When I think organic, I'm like, oh shit, like a fleshy kind of exterior, like a human. There's something about it that seems of Earth but not of Earth, so just very like.

Josh:

Well, like you said, there's physical sensations. There's weird things, but the weird one is the sudden temperature drop.

Travis:

Yep, or the feelings of nausea.

Josh:

Yeah, the appearance of clouds, psychological distress, weird smells.

Travis:

There's weird things, but the weird one is the sudden temperature drop, yep, or the feelings of nausea, yeah, the appearance of clouds, psychological distress, weird smells. So this part of reading through the dossier. I went on a weird MRI tangent looking to see if people experienced nausea when having an MRI done. A width contrast means that they're putting something in your body that goes into your blood and then that makes it more visible to this MRI.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

So like highlights these organs and if you have metal in your body because you are in a giant magnet, it will rip it out of your body. So if you have a piercing, they tell you to take your piercing out or else it's gone. If you have a metal knee or you've had back surgery, it will get ripped from your body. So I went on this weird oh man right, I don't.

Travis:

I that sounds so horrible. That was earlier today when I was reading through this again and is that why you were crying when you showed up? I was sobbing, I was so upset, it was a very upsetting thing to think about.

Travis:

Um, anyways, the point is is like getting around a magnet that is super powered we talked about this on one of our other episodes like how these ships maybe move through our atmosphere and that's maybe using earth's magnetic field to kind of help propel them along. To have a magnet like that and then be around it probably would have give us like a nauseous feeling.

Josh:

Yeah, magnets can make people real weird. Magnets, electricity and sound as well. They can make people go crazy.

Travis:

What is it called the power code accelerator? That's what. I'm thinking Just magnets that push things around like really fast. Somebody stuck their face in it and just like it melted it, what Like? Killed all the muscles in that side of his face, so it looked like he had a stroke.

Josh:

Did he do it on purpose? Yes For science.

Travis:

Probably like. You know how scientists get all crazy when they've been drinking their schnapps and they're like dare me to do it. And they're like, yeah, man, do it, do it. Take another shot first, though. Yeah, I dare you to put your face in the particle accelerator.

Travis:

And then he fucking did it I can't believe that I'm gonna look it up it had to have been an accident okay, um, in 1978 a man by anatoly bagorski accidentally put his head inside a particle accelerator on july 13, 1978 when a safety mechanism failed, causing a beam of protons that passed through his head. He survived incident although he experienced significant radiation damage and neurological complications. So you can look this up and they have not like a before and after, but they will put like a dividing line on his face and part of his face looks regular, full of muscle, and then the part that was in the particle accelerator it's like a very distinct line. It looks almost like he had a stroke. Wow, it's wild that I mean.

Travis:

So anyway, that sounds horrible magnets can I guess to like sum up that whole portion yeah, what are they doing?

Josh:

that's what are they doing.

Travis:

Anybody ever talked to magnets. What are they up to over there?

Josh:

let's say uh, the insane clown posse lyrics. They have a line. It goes water, earth, air, dirt, motherfucking magnets. How do they work?

Travis:

like asking the questions man. Yeah, they're just asking the questions, josh.

Josh:

Yep, I respect that, yeah so one of the other ones that was kind of scary for me was the triangular okay ones, because it's a black or dark gray object, sometimes with white lights and corners and central red light twinkling stars on surface ranging in size from an f-16 to a football field.

Travis:

Yeah, that's terrifying that is some independence day shit that I don't want to be a part of and they say that like the triangles come from, like they range from, like equilateral, so like all sides are equal, to like an isosceles, where you know one side might be longer than the other.

Josh:

Just size wise, that would be just as scary as the irregular organic.

Travis:

Anything big freaks me out.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

If I were to see a whale, I think I would have a panic attack.

Josh:

Are you afraid of whales?

Travis:

No, I've seen them out in the wild and they it's incredible and it fills me with like so much adrenaline. I just get really amped up because of how big they are. But I did not see them in their entirety, like I've never seen a beach whale. If I were to see a beach whale I would be overcome with just how big they are. I have a very deep fear of deep water. I realized this going backpacking. We go up to these mountain lakes that can be very deep and very clear, where you can climb up. A lot of these lakes are in a bowl and so there's a little ridge that kind of wraps around it and if you were climbing up this ridge we would do day hikes, get up to the top of this ridge and look down. You could see so far down into some of these lakes you couldn't see the bottom and that freaked me out and that's when I realized how scary what's going on down there? What are they doing down there?

Josh:

Has anybody asked the bottom of this?

Travis:

lake. What's going on?

Josh:

Something going on. How do they work? Like Crater Lake, that's one of the deepest lakes in the world, sure, so, finishing off section three, there are some examples that we should read. So these are some reports from military personnel that have experienced. These are encounters, basically, and this is in this Immaculate Consolation document. So the first one is the close encounter by CVN flight deck personnel.

Josh:

While on active duty in the Pacific, flight deck personnel working night duty experienced a close encounter with a spherical UAP of medium-large size. On duty, flight deck crew observed a small orange-red sphere maneuvering at high altitude above the CVN. Shortly after first observation, the UAP rapidly descended from high altitude to a position directly above the flight deck of the CVN, height approximately 100 to 200 yards. The UAP maintained altitude and matched speed with the underway CVN for an uncertain period. Observing personnel reported altered perceptions of time. During the close encounter, uaps appeared to emit a soft orange-red light which bizarrely, did not illuminate the ocean or the flight deck of the CVN. Despite the visual appearance of intense luminosity, the surface of the UAP was observed to be dynamic, roiling like the surface of the sun. The UAP took no reported actions during the encounter, only maintaining a close proximity to the CVN. After an uncertain period, the UAP suddenly shot into the air, disappearing at a point high above the CVN. Observing personnel felt as if they snapped out of a trance and sense of profound unease.

Josh:

The incident report concludes with noting that the CVN had not responded in any way to what was perceived as a hostile interception by the UAP. I mean, this is one of the first examples of some of the documentation that they've had. But that is crazy. So something bright without illuminating I've never even thought of something like that and then roiling like the surface of the sun. So I mean they were basically hypnotized, it seems like. So then there's one other one that it mentions, and it's the metallic orbs intercepting F-22 on CONUS air surveillance and control mission. So while performing a routine airspace surveillance and control mission in the Eastern Air Defense sector, an F-22 fighter observed multiple UAP contacts at mission altitude. Moving to intercept the F-22, pilot noted multiple metallic orbs slightly smaller than a sedan hovering in place. Upon vectoring towards the UAPs, a smaller formation of the metallic orbs accelerated at rapid speed toward the F-22, which was unable to establish radar locks on the presumed hostile UAPs. The F-22 broke trajectory and attempted to evade, but was intercepted and boxed in by approximately three to six UAPs. One UAP maneuvered in proximity, around 12 meters to the area, directly starboard of the cockpit. There, the UAP established a rigid spatial relationship with the F-22, maintaining its exact position and orientation parallel with the F-22's cockpit. Despite multiple evasive rolls and maneuvers, surrounded by the presumed hostile UAP uaps, the f-22 was forced out of the mission area under the escort of the uap formation.

Josh:

Holy fucking shit. Holy shit is right. That is terrifying. Like I mean. You hear all these stories and it's like they're doing no harm and you know they're just observing. But this was not observing, this was I mean. If you look at police car chases and these cops are guiding or boxing in a driver and they're maneuvering them somewhere else. So that's what these guys are doing, these UAPs. That's terrifying it is.

Josh:

And this is in the document that Congress has and this is information that the government has. This is just the tip of the iceberg and they said there's over 400 of these stories and they're keeping all this kind of information from congress and then they're researching, they're doing all this stuff.

Travis:

I mean it's, this is a big deal sorry I I kind of forgot that we were on a podcast and I was just getting lost. Well, I lost the information. Um, just how, how wild is.

Josh:

Is this doing anything for your skepticism, or is this kind of?

Travis:

My skepticism is not uh, that they like I've talked about. It's not that they exist or don't exist. It is the vehicle that this stuff is presented to us.

Josh:

So when I explain this podcast to people, I'll say my cohost. He believes in aliens, he believes that that has to exist. Yeah, but the proof that Earth has provided him.

Travis:

Insufficient.

Josh:

Yeah, it's insufficient. It makes him skeptical because really he thinks none of it is proof. But for me, I'm just a believer. I'm a forever believer. I get excited about believing things. It could be bonkers. I don't believe everything, obviously. I go into it logically, but I mean, from the information that I have so far, it does seem pretty logical that the military is hiding something and there's some pretty crazy shit going on.

Josh:

Yes, there is a third example. I encourage you guys to pull out that document and read it for yourself. We're going to go to the next section, section four, which is the DOD bureaucratic records. So just quickly, this document alleges a deliberate effort within certain sectors of the US government to conceal the true nature of UAPs in the existence of programs like the Immaculate Consolation, because this is not the only program that is around. That is an unacknowledged special access program. There's a bunch of those. So this includes denying access to information, misclassifying data and misleading members of Congress. So they're purposely lying, purposely misclassifying data, so it doesn't sound bad. They're probably purposely hiding data and they're denying access to information to Congress.

Travis:

I look at this as like yes, maybe they are intentionally hiding this.

Travis:

That is a very distinct possibility, right?

Travis:

I think that, based on how big the government is, a lot of this stuff is just accumulating data and putting it like we talked earlier in this specific show, putting it in a bin of sorts and then just kind of forgetting about it.

Travis:

And then, as politicians, you know, and then that's part of our democracy, living in a or a republic, where we nominate representatives and then they spend a certain amount of time in office. As those people matriculate or work their way through the system and out of the system, information gets lost or information gets put aside or projects get left behind. And I feel like that is closer to what we're experiencing with this. You know, heads of state getting fired and replaced and the new information coming up, and these directors of these organizations having their own directives, their own projects that they're trying to get going, and so the projects of the previous head may be put aside, and so all that information is not going in the trash bin, it is just getting set aside and maybe put in the folder, and then people are getting asked about it, and I don't think that they have the full breadth of what has been researched.

Josh:

I think that does go on in the Department of Defense and the Pentagon and all this. But it sounds as though, with Lou Elizondo working with AATIP and some of the other programs, those were special access programs. So there was active people working on all this information, trying to get as much information as they can. Immaculate Consolation is an unacknowledged special access program with different people actively working to do all this stuff and I don't know. I mean I think Lou Elizondo knows a lot and he can't talk about a lot, but he had to dig hard for a lot of the information that he had and he had to interview a lot of people and a lot of people wouldn't return his calls or would dodge his interviews and his questions. This immaculate consolation. If he had access to that, which I don't think he did, he wouldn't have to do all that digging and everything. It's all there, right. So this is another project. So this isn't just hand-me-downs and lost information. I mean this is an active program that they're saying isn't real.

Josh:

Yeah, and how many other ones are there? So section five is called Restrictg historical records, so it starts out g backslash zero, zero backslash 162-78. This serial number corresponds to an official nsa report published in 1978.

Travis:

The existence and content of this report was verified by accessing the appropriate intelligence archives and that demonstrates the us technology explicitly asked to collect on foreign entities, often relegated to the fringes of scientific research, including parapsychology and the biological effects of encounters with UAP. A lot of shit was going on in 1978. That's the same year that guy put his face in a particle accelerator. It's a big year. That was my mind being blown, so they're doing deep fringe science on UAPs.

Josh:

I don't know if this immaculate thing I mean this may not be part of the immaculate. This is a NSA report.

Travis:

This is the US asking to collect information on foreign entities, often relegated to fringes. So this is like the Fire in the Sky, guy Travis, like his incident. All of these accounts, starting from 1978, are being collected.

Josh:

Okay, so Michael Schellenberger. He was in the 2024 UAP hearing.

Travis:

He's considered the well, he's a journalist and he is the person that this information, I believe, was supposedly leaked to, and then Schellenberger moved this along, I think, if I'm if I follow this correctly he was the middleman, for sure. Schellenberger says he knows who the whistleblower is.

Josh:

He's had conversations with this individual right, yeah, and he knows the references and the sources that the individual got this information from and has talked to other sources to confirm that what is in this is true. So he's done his due diligence.

Travis:

So in the same conversations that he's had, he says I will not name this person, but then he also says David Grush's name. So maybe him making that contrast does indicate the person that was responsible for this Immaculate Consolation report or information is not in fact, david Grush.

Josh:

Yeah. So Schellenberger referenced a scanned handwritten note from 1985 by Oak Shannon in his written testimony, on page 210. Oak Shannon is a former researcher scientist at Los Alamos National Laboratory. Where do we know that from Bob Lazar, who is tasked with reverse engineering craft and collected many interviews from UFO experiencers? Sounds similar to what Bob Lazar was talking about and he also worked at Los Olmos. Yeah, on page 24 of the Shannon notes from 1985, it mentions NSA document with that number with a star next to it that says look for this. So the author highlights that documents like this give a glimpse into a secretive, decades long competition between major terrestrial powers to collect and reverse engineer technologies derived from the study of UAP and non-human intelligence. So when I read that part I was so excited. This was not in this document. This was a side note. It's just exciting to see that Bob Lazar was not the only whistleblower from Los Alamos. There was others, maybe, maybe this is also.

Travis:

Bob Lazar, shannon Lazar, but maybe it's a nom de plume, could be.

Josh:

Could be yes.

Travis:

It is interesting to note that there are other people that witnessed the same thing the Bob Blizzard did and then the reverse engineering of these. I think they specifically said like a triangle that they had shot down. Also in these notes it says that every major political player in the world has engaged and shot down a UAP, which is wild.

Josh:

That is wild, but it would make sense. Yeah, I mean, all the bigger powers have military.

Travis:

Yeah Well, I also think it's pretty vain to think that it's just the United States that they'd be interested in.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

When the world is a big place.

Josh:

I think even in this 12 page document they mentioned that it is around military bases and it's a world thing. Yeah, so we'll get into section six. It's titled Signals Intelligence. So the general conclusion of the worldwide UAP events occurring over sensitive military and intelligent facilities are that other countries are experiencing the same UAP events as the US. They are treated as a serious national security threat. The facilities affected are most often associated with aerospace defense, strategic deterrence and military-sponsored scientific research and development. Also, each nation has attempted to intercept and shoot down UAPs violating their airspace and each nation has internal organizations dedicated to studying UAP threats, scientific principles and managing public perception of the UAP issue. So it's happening everywhere.

Travis:

It's happening everywhere, which was a question I asked early on in the show, or maybe it was off mic. I was like so why are all these things happening here? And your answer was oh no, they're happening all over the place.

Josh:

Yeah, you just have to look. It's just it's not widely publicized, you know. I mean, that was the last point is each nation is managing public perception. So this comes to the last section, section seven, which is hilarious and I love it. Section seven is sensitive sources.

Travis:

Yeah.

Josh:

And the author of this 12-page document simply writes from mouth to ear it's so funny. That's it yeah that's all there, and this is like in the document the shortest thing, one little sentence yeah, and that's just pretty much like alluding to how this information was gathered.

Travis:

He's not gonna cite like yeah, he's not gonna tell his sources, well, or or even cite, like a scientific journal or anything like that, because they're not trying to dox anybody. These are whistleblowers. It is, though, to your point. It is a very funny thing.

Josh:

Yeah, it could refer to information passed verbally and not recorded officially. It may relate to how the author obtained the information about sensitive intelligence collected against UAPs by foreign countries, but no one knows right what it actually means. He could just be like, uh, fuck you, I'm not telling you my sources. I'm no rat. Yeah, snitches get stitches yeah bitches I'm out.

Josh:

So the conclusion of this entire thing. So this is right. After section seven, the one line. So, in conclusion, this time poses too many risks To them. It must be said that we will never be able to predict how individuals, families, communities and nations will react to revelations of such magnitude. Moving forward, we must guard against the lure of authoritarian solutions justified by expediency and appeals to national security. The good in humanity will always triumph through time, and it is in the moment of crisis that our capacities for achieving the extraordinary are discovered. Be not afraid. What a conclusion. Nice. I like it. It's nice, it's motivating, it is, it's hopeful. It reminds me of the speech from Independence Day.

Travis:

Oh, we will not go quietly into the night. Yeah, this is a little more hopeful than that. This is like, yes, these things are happening, but we have always managed, throughout the course of human history, to find a way to get through it.

Josh:

Yeah, humans thrive of human history to find a way to get through it. Yeah, humans thrive, and we thrive even more when there's something that's holding us back or something that's scary or sad. We band together.

Travis:

I like that. He said goodness will always triumph. I think that's nice and that's hopeful. And then, don't be afraid, you know, just be courageous, be brave.

Josh:

Yeah, and we've mentioned this before in another episode where I think it needs to happen. Humanity needs to band together. Finally, because we're so torn, I mean just the United States alone, but then there's the world politics Like, we're all human and we all need to work together. We all need to realize that we are all the same and we need to come together, and I think that will move us drastically forward for the better.

Travis:

Yeah.

Josh:

So that was the immaculate consolation for dummies. Do you want to talk about what happened right after the document was released?

Travis:

There was some drama right there was drama, where Jeremy Corbell got a little worked up and called members of Congress liars.

Josh:

Yeah, he stood up and yelled that Congress lied and that he was the one who submitted the document, not the person stated by Nancy Mace.

Travis:

There was a cover letter that was submitted that was written by Jeremy Corbell. That was part of this dossier. So this dossier was 11 pages, right? Congress had said or the members of this committee that were part of this hearing said as much. There's 12 pages, but they only released 11.

Josh:

Yeah, on the congressgov, there still is only 11. Only 11. Yeah.

Travis:

That 12th page is just an introduction by Jeremy Corbell.

Josh:

Stating the importance and the work that he did on it. Yes, yeah, it's not necessary. It doesn't give any information other than who provided this. Also, there could have been other people that had this document. It wasn't just him, but Jeremy has been since very vocal about the representatives being strong-armed by suits to not mention his name during the hearing. This is supposedly corroborated by the representative, tim Burcham.

Travis:

But what does suits mean?

Josh:

It's like clothes you wear them, or a lawsuit, I guess.

Travis:

But when he's saying suits, it's like this amorphous villain. I don't know what that means. What does that mean? Maybe it's the men in black? Yeah.

Josh:

I don't know what he means by suits, probably just people in black. Yeah, I don't know what he means by suits.

Travis:

Probably just people in charge. That seems more like him being a little reductive, where he's just trying to throw an insult at somebody like you suits. You guys don't know what you're talking about. You're lying to us, so it's just.

Josh:

Yeah, it's like at work. If corporate shows up it's like, oh, here comes the suits. Yeah, it's just the people in charge. So Tim Burchett supposedly corroborated this, though some in the UFO community feel that Jeremy Corbell just wanted credit where credit is due, which I don't blame him. It probably took a lot of work to get all that and get this in. I mean, I can't imagine I wouldn't be able to do what happened.

Travis:

No, and then this community. What I learned when I was in college was that a lot of professors have this doctrine it's publish or perish. College was that. A lot of professors have this doctrine that's publish or perish. And I feel like it's the same with like documentarians like Jeremy Corbell, where you have to continually make stuff. I mean, this is his livelihood. You have to continually make stuff or you're not bringing any. I mean, lay it all on the table. If you're not making something like this, then you're not making any money. Yeah, he has to survive too. He has to survive.

Josh:

Yeah, I mean, a journalist isn't going to spend years in another country researching something and then post it anonymously. Yeah.

Travis:

You know they? I mean that happens Like you can do years and years of research on a topic only to have it be disproved with like two lines of dialogue, and then all of your work is now meaningless.

Josh:

Yes, that happens but, this isn't meaningless and he needs the credit for sure. Overall, pretty crazy. I'm glad we did this in three parts because we were talking about doing this as one episode, like congressional hearings episode there's no way we could have done it in one episode.

Travis:

I mean, already we're like how long have we been recording?

Josh:

yeah, that's the thing I mean. I didn't want to do a three, four, four hour episode. No one has that time I mean I have.

Travis:

I do listen to podcasts that will periodically go over three hours, but like that's, that's that podcast building up to it, like starting at about an hour and a half and then working up to two and then three hours, and so I have a rapport with these podcasters and I understand where they're going. So, but we're just, you know, dumb idiots talking about this very complicated thing, and I don't think people are, I don't know.

Josh:

Yeah, this is aliens for dummies because we're the dummies and we're trying to understand this and I hope that you guys are learning something you know. If this is an easy way for you to get information, then that's awesome. We're doing this because we love knowledge. We love this idea, this topic, and it's just fascinating. We could be wrong on multiple different things. I don't know.

Travis:

I probably am.

Josh:

I probably am too. You know, I've made lots of mistakes and you know what. Some of my ideas have changed too, some of my beliefs, and even topics that we've already talked about. I'm just like, ooh, I actually think differently about that now, with more information that I'm getting, and there's more information coming out all the time. Yeah, so I appreciate that you guys are listening. We definitely want feedback, as long as you're gentle.

Travis:

Yeah, I mean I don't, I don't care, I've got pretty thick skin, so you guys can say whatever you want, I'm probably not going to change my opinions on a lot of things.

Josh:

I will. If you come at me hard, I will change my opinion. If you come at me hard enough, you can be mean, I don't know, I'll probably find it entertaining.

Travis:

If you come at me with something that makes sense to me, then maybe my opinion will be changed. But for the most part my opinion is not to change and less there is like definitive proof of something yeah, also there'll be a link for fan mail.

Josh:

You can just message us straight from your computer, your tablet or phone. I don't know why I said phone last yeah, phone is like my first entrance into yeah, you don't even have a computer, I don't I don't believe they exist well I'm sure you'll get feedback on that. What are they hiding? So now it is our favorite segment, the baseline quiz. All right, so do you want to talk about what we're going to talk about next week?

Travis:

Okay, so our baseline quiz is giving me childhood excitement. We're going to be talking next week about UFO sky battles, which when I saw that I got excited Only exist in sci-fi.

Josh:

Yeah, sky battles. Yeah, any sci-fi, anything but it sounds so cool, sky battles.

Travis:

Oh, my God.

Josh:

And I don't know what it means.

Travis:

I don't know what it means. I'm excited to find out.

Josh:

Yeah, so god, and I don't know what it means. I don't know what it means. I'm excited to find out. Yeah, so this is what we're going to talk about next week.

Travis:

We don't know anything about it, the mind reels so here we go.

Josh:

We have, uh, some questions. I'm going to read these questions, okay and then we'll both answer it yeah, we'll both answer. They're all multiple choice and here we go. So u UFO sky battles. In what year was the battle over Nuremberg? Was it 1942, 1561, 1782, or 1639?

Travis:

So at the top of this file there is a little there's like an artistic rendering of what I assume is a sky battle. It does not look like it is of the current like it looks like leonardo da vinci it does, so I don't know if that is jordan is trying to throw us off here or if this is like information that she's just like being cheeky about giving us I wouldn't put it past her either way i'm'm going to say my guess, just based on this.

Josh:

I think it's 1639.

Travis:

I was going to say 1639 too, but I'll say, just for the purposes of this Okay, 1639, and I said it first.

Josh:

Oh, I thought you were going to choose something else and I was just thinking oh, if he chooses something else and it's wrong. He's going to be mad. Yeah, All right. Next question which of the following does not describe the UFOs reported in the battle over Nuremberg? Is it spheres, disks, crosses or cylinders?

Travis:

I'm going to say cylinders.

Josh:

I'm going to say cylinders too, too, because that wasn't in the report we just read for this immaculate constellation.

Travis:

I didn't see anything about cylinders but if we're talking about this one specific there's crosses.

Travis:

I didn't see anything about crosses either no, but crosses is one of those things that could be like, uh, an x, a teardrop shape, could be viewed as a cross. What? Well, because it has like a point. If you're looking and you don't have the like the vocabulary, we're talking about an incident. I'm just basing this off. My answer 1639. Okay, so this report, the battle of nuremberg, if there were eyewitness events, their vocabulary is going to be limited and if they're looking up in the sky and they see something that's lit up like a teardrop shape or like an isosceles triangle or any one of those, these triangle events, they might interpret it as a cross being. You know maybe of the Christian persuasion, where they're just seeing crosses everywhere.

Travis:

You could be right. So that's why I'm saying, like they could say, it looked like flying crosses. That's why I'm saying it's cylinders, because we're looking for something that is not.

Josh:

I'm going to say crosses. That was my answer, okay.

Travis:

You're saying cylinders? Yeah, I am. Who wants to be a millionaire working my way through my answer?

Josh:

specifically. No, that's great, all right. Next question In what US city did military reportedly open fire on UFOs in 1942? Los Angeles, california reportedly opened fire on ufos in 1942 los angeles, california, new york, new york, hampton, virginia, las vegas, nevada. I actually know this answer, so do you?

Travis:

I do and it's batshit. I'm gonna say so. You want me to answer first. You answer first. Lock my answer in. What lock my answer in? Yeah, I want you first and then lock it in. Put it on this file.

Josh:

Put it on this yeah not change it no, my answer is las vegas nevada that is my answer as well oh my god I think I know the. I mean I'm pretty sure I've seen.

Travis:

No, no, you're confident. You were super confident yeah, I just don't want to be confident and be wrong that sounds like where you're trying, where you're trying to reverse our personalities here, where I come in super confident and then I'm wrong every time yeah, okay.

Josh:

next question what did witnesses see in the skies of stralsund, sweden, now germany in 1665? A dark spear, a shiny, a shiny cube, a large hat I want it to be a large hat A fiery disc.

Travis:

To me that's just really funny. But again, that could be a way that they describe something that they didn't have vocabulary for, that's true, so it could have just looked like a large hat.

Josh:

I think it's a large hat because they didn't have discs, Like they wouldn't know that word yet, right?

Travis:

I wouldn't think so. I don't know. I mean, they had wheels. It looks like a disc. Yeah, I think they would have said a large wheel in the sky, though, Right, Maybe let's go. Let's unanimously do, Lord Chet. Let's just let's all in on that, Josh.

Josh:

Okay, let's hold hands and drive off this cliff. Thelma and Louise style, I don style. I don't know what kind of hat. Maybe it was like the gimbal, maybe they thought the gimbal was a hat, sure, possibly. Okay, next question when was the celestial phenomenon over basil? Switzerland? 1983, this is a wild. 1794, 1885 or 1566, it's u Battles. So we're going to talk about all the battles in the sky.

Travis:

I guess all of them. Yeah, not one specifically. I thought it was going to be like one. That's how I walked into this quiz too.

Josh:

Yeah, okay. So we're going through history. Celestial phenomenon, switzerland I'm going to say 1794.

Travis:

I don't know my first NSYNC was 1885. I'm going to stick with that. I don't really have a reason.

Josh:

Yeah, this is just straight guess. Yep, all right. Last question what unusual events did not take place in Basel? Spheres fought each other, sightings of men in strange black clothes, the sun changed shape and color, a total eclipse of the moon.

Travis:

So that tells me, based on the phrasing of this question, that three of these things did in fact happen yes, that's where my Only one of them did not, and they're all fucking wild.

Josh:

I was trying to. You got there a little quicker than me. I was frantically trying to figure out how three of these things could happen, mm-hmm, and which one. Yeah, this is Okay.

Travis:

Okay, because we've talked about some of these. There have always been sightings of men in black, right, I mean I'm going to say that happened. A total eclipse of the moon Possible? That is a thing that does exist in this world. Yeah, spheres fought each other. That is the premise of this whole quiz. Is the fucking space battle? So I'm gonna say the sky battles. I'm gonna say the sun changed shape and color.

Josh:

That did not happen okay, I'm gonna say, because of the name of this event is celestial phenomenon.

Travis:

I'm going to say, maybe spheres didn't fight each other holy shit and the other things was these three things so I'm going to say spheres fought each other did not take place maybe jordan, being a little cheeky again, could be leading us down a like I said, I wouldn't put a pastor.

Josh:

Okay, all right, so we're going to submit, I'm going to view our accuracy.

Travis:

Well, thumbs down, fart sound on that first one yeah, in what year was the battle over nuremberg?

Josh:

we both said 1639. It was 1561, yeah I mean okay, okay next one, which of the following does not describe the ufos reported in the battle over nuremberg? I I said crosses, you said cylinders. It was discs, discs. Okay, off to a good start Show me those discs, let me see your discs. So next one In what US city did military reportedly open fire on UFOs in 1942?

Travis:

Funny how the tables have turned. I am accustomed to being wrong.

Josh:

How does?

Travis:

it feel to go into a question so confident and then have it blow up in your face.

Josh:

It didn't blow up. I got it right, didn't you?

Travis:

say Las Vegas.

Josh:

No, I said Los Angeles.

Travis:

I said Las Vegas oh.

Josh:

I thought you said Los Angeles. It was wishful thinking, it was Los.

Travis:

Angeles, you changed your answer.

Josh:

No, it was Los Angeles. It was right by Catalina Island. That's a hot spot. I'm sorry, I feel bad now. Damn it Ooh. Next question this is awkward now. What did witnesses see?

Travis:

So betrayed. But now it's all good, because now I get my funny answer.

Josh:

Yeah, what did witnesses see in the skies of Stralsund Sweden, now Germany in 1665? It was a large hat, in fact a large hat. It was not a disc, not a cube or a spear, it was a hat. It was a hat, that's really funny.

Travis:

I love this for us yeah.

Josh:

I hope there's drawings Maybe saved our friendship. I hope so.

Travis:

It was on the rocks there for one question, I could tell energy.

Josh:

I started smelling weird things and they got really cold.

Travis:

Yeah, yeah, you started to feel a sense of dread.

Josh:

Yeah. Next question when was the celestial phenomenon over Basel, Switzerland? I said 1794. What did you say? 1885. It was 1566. Oh my God which? The battle over Nuremberg was 1561. So yeah.

Travis:

So yeah, so it's five year difference.

Josh:

Big century for battles, for sky battles.

Travis:

For sky battles.

Josh:

Yeah, it is so. Yeah, 1566. Okay, last one. What unusual events did not take place in?

Travis:

Basel. This is a shock to me.

Josh:

So I said, spheres fought each other.

Travis:

You said the sun changed shape and color.

Josh:

We were both wrong.

Travis:

Yes.

Josh:

It was sightings of men in strange black clothes which is wild.

Travis:

I thought that we'd read, or had been led to believe, that there were always. As long as there have been sightings of UFOs or UAPs, there have been men in black. My whole world is turned upside down.

Josh:

Yeah, we did a men in black episode. I don't know. I know it goes back hundreds of years. I don't know if it goes back that far. I mean 1566? That's crazy. But that does mean that spheres fought each other, the sun changed shape and color and a total eclipse of the moon. Okay, I would say that counts as a celestial phenomenon.

Travis:

Well, I got two right, you got one, I'm so sorry, it's okay, I had already locked in Las Vegas. Okay, so it was fine. You didn't lead me to Las Vegas, I got myself there. Yeah, you said loss and I thought you said Los and then you were just done Los Angeles, yeah.

Josh:

Okay, well, let's you know that we know nothing about this, which is really exciting because we get to learn something new.

Travis:

Yeah, plus it's Sky Battles, so that just sounds rad.

Josh:

Yeah, I might be in full cosplay for this episode when we record this.

Travis:

Yeah, we'll make sure that those pictures end up on our Instagram.

Josh:

Yeah, well, thank you for listening. We appreciate you and we're excited to go on this journey with you with sky battles next next episode.

Travis:

Yeah, what a time to be alive. Yeah, and 1566 yeah all right.

Josh:

Well, have a great rest of your life until this next one uh, we should do our thank yous.

Travis:

Who do we thank our researcher jordan? Yeah, our researcher, our composer jordan, our graphic designer, our lord and savior jordan yeah, thank you, jordan the alpha and the omega jordan. Yep, as far as this podcast is concerned, our quiz master jordan quiz master. Jordan who else? What else did jordan do?

Josh:

she is the mother of my children.

Travis:

The mother of your children, jordan. Thank you, thank you, jordan.

Josh:

And she's just really cool and funny and smart and pretty and hopefully this gives me enough kudos to have a nice evening with her sometime.

Travis:

Whoa.

Josh:

Yeah, not like that. What a saucy end to this podcast you dirty boy, whoa, okay.

Travis:

Well, there you go. Think of that.

Josh:

Yep, we'll end there. All right, I'll talk to you guys later. Okay, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye.

People on this episode

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Josh Snodgrass

Co-host
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Travis Wright

Co-host
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Jordan Blair

Producer