Aliens? Yes! But Maybe No

Is the Moon a Hollow Spacecraft?

• Aliens? Yes! But Maybe No • Episode 12

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Warning: This episode almost ended in a lunar-sized argument! Travis and Josh lock horns over the wildly debated hollow moon theory. 

Could our closest celestial neighbor actually be an enormous artificial structure? The Hollow Moon Theory has captivated fringe scientists and conspiracy theorists for decades, and for compelling reasons. When NASA intentionally crashed lunar modules into the moon's surface during Apollo missions, something unexpected happened – the moon resonated for hours, "ringing like a bell" according to scientists monitoring the seismic activity. Even stranger, the vibrations appeared to accelerate rather than diminish with depth.

Josh and Travis go head-to-head in this mind-bending episode, exploring scientific anomalies that mainstream explanations struggle to address. Why does the moon have such unusually low density compared to Earth? How do we explain finding elements on the lunar surface that supposedly don't occur naturally? And perhaps most perplexing: why are surface rocks on the moon consistently older than those beneath them – a geological impossibility according to conventional understanding?

The debate gets heated as Josh embraces the possibility of an artificial moon, while Travis remains firmly skeptical, dissecting each claim with rational counterarguments. They explore ancient texts from various cultures describing times "before the moon existed," consider whether the moon's perfect positioning for solar eclipses could be intentional design, and question why humans haven’t returned to the moon since the 70's despite vastly improved technology.

Whether you're a skeptic or open to alternative explanations, this episode challenges conventional thinking about one of our most familiar cosmic companions. Listen now and decide for yourself: is our moon simply a natural satellite, or could it be hiding secrets far beyond our current understanding?

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Josh:

Aliens Aliens, yes.

Travis:

But maybe no. Welcome to the show. Aliens, yes, but maybe no. With Josh and Travis. I'm Travis.

Josh:

And I'm Josh.

Travis:

This is an otherworldly podcast, as ambiguous as our title. So this is now our 10th record.

Josh:

Yeah, travis brought over some sparkling bubbly wines to celebrate.

Travis:

That was the champagne bottle popping.

Josh:

At 11am to drink yeah, the champagne bottle popping At 11 am to drink.

Travis:

Yeah, what a time to be alive. And we have all the reasons in the world to drink. We do, yep, we're just now looking for smaller reasons to do it also.

Josh:

Well, I would say this is a big reason, this episode, because it messed with my head, okay. If you guys listened last week which we talked about, the Phoenix Lights. Right we, If you guys listened- last week, which we talked about the Phoenix Lights right.

Travis:

Yes, we talked about the Phoenix Lights. My boy, Kurt Russell.

Josh:

We did a test as our baseline quiz. It was frustrating for both of us because it just blew our minds.

Travis:

Well, that it's a theory is insane.

Josh:

It is insane. So hollow moon theory is what we're going to talk about today, and I've done a lot of research. Travis has done research. My mind is oozing with chaos.

Travis:

Yeah, oozing, you could have chosen a better one.

Josh:

I know this topic is very interesting, very compelling.

Travis:

To say the least. It involves a high level of like ancient text and religious text and some really wild speculation which we'll get into yeah, I mean, we're gonna get into it for sure, for sure.

Josh:

So, yeah, most of us know this thing. Yeah, that's up there in the night sky called the moon Looking down on us, yep, winking, yeah, so the moon is simply Earth's constant companion in the night sky. But to some, the moon holds secrets, secrets.

Travis:

Secrets Someone's filling our new intro.

Josh:

Yeah, secrets that defy mainstream science and hint at much stranger origin. The hollow moon theory proposes that the moon is not a solid rock, but either a hollow structure or perhaps an enormous artificial spacecraft. Prominence of this theory point to a range of unusual lunar anomalies. As evidence, for instance, scientists have long noted the moon's relatively low density compared to Earth's Doesn't quite add up. If the moon is a solid rock, why does it appear lighter than expected? Some argue that it might be hollow, with only a thin crust and outer layer. Then there's the question of the moon's surface composition. Lunar rocks collected by Apollo astronauts contain high amounts of titanium, chromium and zirconium, elements known for their strength and resistance to corrosion. This has also led to some theorists suggesting that the moon's outer layer may be reinforced, as if it were designed rather than naturally formed. Even stranger elements like uranium 236 and neptunium 237, which do not occur naturally, have been found on the moon. Could these traces point into something artificial?

Travis:

Okay, I just I want to take a little bit of exception to them not occurring naturally, because if we can create it, then it does somehow occur naturally, whether on our planet or in the broader universe. Right, we cannot just create or destroy things that don't exist.

Josh:

Are you saying that? Because we're humans and we're natural that if we make something that makes it natural, no, I'm saying that Because that's bullshit.

Travis:

What is bullshit?

Josh:

Because it's like the no, no, I'm saying the person that smokes weed's like man, it's natural.

Travis:

Well, I mean like OK, so let's, let's talk about this weed thing Like weed can grow naturally. Okay, so let's, let's talk about this weed thing like weed can grow naturally. Yes, but we have put our hand on the scale and changed the strains, and so weed that was smoked even as short as 10 years ago is different and more potent now than it was then.

Travis:

Right, and that, yeah, I don't disagree with that yes, we can create things here, but we can't just create things out of whole cloth, like there is a reason that we can put things together. That is a natural thing, that happens. If we couldn't create it, then I should have prefaced this by saying I'm an idiot legally, a legal moron, an illegal moron, I'm running loose man.

Josh:

Okay.

Travis:

Somebody catch me. Stop me from doing this. I'm running loose man. Okay, Somebody catch me. Stop me from doing this. I'm trying, but if we couldn't create it, then it would be impossible to create, right? I don't know if I'm communicating my thought very clearly. We can create things here and these elements, Neptunium and whatever they can be created, but we can create those because they can occur naturally.

Josh:

I don't know the answer.

Travis:

It seems as though it's pretty heavy duty science to create these things like splitting isotopes, and when we say occurring naturally, what they're saying is like we haven't found evidence of it here on Earth. But that does not mean that it doesn't exist elsewhere. Right, and obviously it does. It's on the moon, and the moon is not just our closest companion, but you could also look at it as like a small protector. It is taking a lot of hits from asteroids, and so we get a lot of like dust and metals from asteroids that are coming from the cosmos landing on the moon that maybe wouldn't have hit Earth because they hit the moon If it is on the moon.

Josh:

but it doesn't occur naturally.

Travis:

Yes, it obviously came from somewhere else. Alien maybe, yeah, possibly, yes, absolutely Alien, maybe. Or just like the earth is so big and we know so little about it. Like to just so that way.

Josh:

If you say maybe alien, then that would line up with the hollow moon theory.

Travis:

No, no. Just because I agree to one aspect of alien culture does not mean that the moon is hollow and that it's an alien ship Like I mean the moon is not creating uranium 236 and neptunium 237.

Josh:

It doesn't have to. It is so. It came from somewhere else.

Travis:

Yeah, like asteroids or comets or whatever, like space dust landing on the moon. I'm sure that there could be evidence of that here on Earth. We just haven't found it yet. Let's dumb it down a little bit. Before the sandwich was invented, it was just like loose meat and maybe some bread. Right, somebody decided to put a sandwich together. Neptunium, I feel like, is that same way. These elements exist. We were able to take these elements to create something bigger.

Josh:

But bread doesn't come naturally, it's created.

Travis:

It is, yes, but it's created from wheat and flour and all these other things.

Josh:

That's exactly what I'm saying.

Travis:

So do you think that we were able to make bread because these other elements exist and we can put those together.

Josh:

Same with these other elements exist and we can put those together, same with these other, but there's no possibility anywhere in the world.

Travis:

It's on the moon. There's bread on the moon? No, there's Neptunium.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

It's on the moon.

Josh:

Yeah, it is on the moon and it has to be created, it has to be cooked, it has to be made. Yes, so it's not natural, in that it is the base things. It has already been created, so it's there.

Travis:

Yes, exactly it's already created. Yeah, it's already there. To say that we've created it and it doesn't occur, naturally, it doesn't make sense to me. Okay, because it's already found on the moon. We didn't create it, we just discovered it. So that's what you're saying? Yes, that's what I'm saying. We discovered that this thing exists, not that we created it. It already existed. Like I said, there's so much about our universe that we don't understand or can even comprehend.

Josh:

The point of these showing up like. What's so interesting about it is that it could point to something artificial, where it didn't grow on a tree, like a loaf of bread doesn't grow from the ground, right, you know. So that's what's interesting about this is that something somewhere, someone has to create it, which is bizarre. That just shows the weirdness of what's happening on the moon that we don't really understand, right?

Travis:

I'm gonna try and follow your logic, but that doesn't really add up.

Josh:

Okay, that doesn't have to, that's fine. I'm a certified idiot too.

Travis:

Two certified idiots Cashing it out, yeah, and our most dangerous weapon Over uranium and neptunium yeah, our most dangerous weapon is a mic and a soundboard.

Josh:

Yeah Well, I want to keep going, because this isn't all that's weird about this theory. One of the most compelling evidence of the hollow moon theory comes from the seismic activity. During the Apollo missions, NASA intentionally crashed lunar modules into the moon's surface, causing it to vibrate for hours as the moon rang like a bell. Some scientists reported that the reverberations traveled unusually deep, even accelerating at certain depths. This behavior, they say, is not what you'd expect from a solid object. So one incident stands out under the direction of Dr Werner von Braun.

Travis:

Okay, before we get to this, earth has a sound. It is a very, very noisy planet and we have an atmosphere, so we can record that. The moon doesn't have an atmosphere. So all we're getting is like vibrations that travel through space, and this ringing like a bell is an artistic flourish. Nobody else is, except for whoever this person that said rang like a bell. Those are the NASA scientists. But who Name them? Give us a name, throw a name out there, chuck. Okay, so, chuck, chuck heard that the moon rang like a bell. That's fine. You got to take into consideration where this landed. If something were to hit Earth over a cave or a system of caves, there would be that same sonic reverberation, and the moon does have caves. In our recent history with the moon, we have discovered that there are caves on the moon and that would elicit like a sonic ring. Correct, because the moon doesn't have an atmosphere. If you're standing on the moon, you wouldn't hear it, because there's no sound in space.

Josh:

It's a vacuum. They measured the ringing by the reverberations, so they weren't listening with headphones. Did they do the?

Travis:

same thing? Did they have the same sonic test here on Earth? Yeah, was there a control? Well, it's not in our reading, so it's not in our readings but guaranteed they have.

Josh:

They've hit things. I mean, our whole seismotology departments are measuring vibrations and readings and they understand vibrations and readings very, very well, and we get those with earthquakes all the time.

Travis:

Yeah, that could ring for hours.

Josh:

Well, those are tectonic shakings, but that doesn't matter, that's still ringing, yeah, but if we drop a huge spaceship?

Travis:

from space onto Earth. It is going to have a vibration, but it's only going to be for a few minutes. No, it's not no way. We have, like I said, tectonic plates ringing and jostling around rings for hours.

Josh:

Yeah, but we're not talking about tectonic plates. The moon doesn't have tectonic plates.

Travis:

We're using the same logic that they are using on the moon here on earth, and they said that they crashed something into the moon and it rang for three hours. That could happen here, but the earth is so noisy, I mean it has a constant hum. It's known as ambient seismic noise. It's composed of seismic waves excited mostly by the interactions of the ocean waves with a C4 and then bouncing around within the earth's crust. The earth is constantly humming.

Josh:

That does not mean that the earth is hollow yeah, but the moon is not constantly humming, and when you hit it with something it hums, and then it hums louder and louder and faster and faster.

Travis:

The earth doesn't have tides or an atmosphere or anything like that. We're not constantly monitoring the moon boom it's not a boom.

Travis:

I know, but I am like we're talking about this to me and I know we're going to talk about another character in this story, but hopefully just briefly. I feel like this sort of theory here is a slippery slope about this community where you start to believe things like flat earth, or even it starts out as a joke. Like you know, this, this thing happened on the moon. That probably means it's hollow, right like. Haha, that's really funny, just kind of like the birds aren't real campaign that was on reddit. People actually started to believe that birds aren't real and it's making them very paranoid. On reddit, people actually started to believe that birds aren't real and it's making them very paranoid. It's like a parody that birds were created so that they could monitor human population I believe it, hey, no, I anyway I feel like this is this is a slippery slope.

Travis:

There are things about hollow earth that I think are very interesting and fascinating, but to me or hollow moon would I say hollow earth yeah okay, well, I mean, that was what journey to the center of the earth was about right with the rock dinosaurs uh dinosaurs and uh king kongs, yeah and godzillas. They all live down there, a whole tribe of king kongs damn I mean, that's it's.

Travis:

it's science fiction and it's wild. There's a lot about the moon that we don't understand. There's a lot about space that we don't understand and we're still learning. So I'm not going to just believe this thing whole cloth because of, like, a couple of fringe scientists feel like it's all. Anyway, that's my opinion. I'll save my overall opinion for later. I think you've made it very clear. Okay, I don't mean to sound so hostile. I'm trying to be open-minded about this. It's just really hard with this kind of this specific topic.

Josh:

Yeah, there's just a lot of evidence. So the moon shouldn't exist. It is an anomaly. Some of the scientific theories that we have aren't really explainable.

Travis:

But if the moon doesn't exist, then life doesn't exist, right? The moon is such a big part of human life.

Josh:

We don't know that. No, we do. That's a theory.

Travis:

No, we have definitive evidence that the moon affects the tides and tides are what benefited evolution. Like that is definitive, we do know that the moon is a reason. Yeah, it could have sped up evolution but we don't know the reason, we don't know is because we were not there. Well, the reason we don't know? That's not true. The reason we don't know is because we have a moon and we don't not have a moon.

Josh:

But is it possible that there were times where there was not a moon?

Travis:

We can look at other planets within our solar system, in our galaxy, that do have moons and we don't know that there's life on it. But that's because we don't know what we don't know, but our moon is not like their moons. Yes, it is, it is very it. It's a big rock that floats around our our atmosphere, like moons are not to say that our moon is hollow in an alien spaceship is to say that all moons are hollow in alien spaceships I'm just saying they did some tests.

Josh:

The moon rang like a bell, yeah, as if were hollow, yeah, and NASA was in charge of those tests, and these are reports from NASA.

Travis:

Okay, so that's reports from some scientists within NASA who took an artistic flourish and say rang like a bell instead of reverberated or did whatever. That's purple language, as they call it. One more thing about the ringing Solid objects absolutely can ring. Have you ever, like, had a metal pipe or a ball and you hit it and it vibrates and will make a sound but it's usually something like a bowl or a pipe that is hollow on the inside they know, if you take like rebar, that's solid, you can hit that and it will 100 vib vibrate.

Josh:

Yeah, it will vibrate and continue to vibrate.

Travis:

That is just like. That's physics. That's transferring energy from one thing to another.

Josh:

But the big thing that they were measuring was the vibration waves, what they look like they would speed up the deeper it went, which means that it is hollow, because if something has density, the vibration slowed down. This did not slow down, it sped up, which is backwards okay it had density. So one incident stands out under the direction of dr verner von braun this is the only time we're ever going to mention him.

Travis:

This guy is uh, I don't want to spend a whole lot of time on this, but he was a nazi that we brought over through operation paperclip clippy, yeah, which is clippy. Um, he was brought because he had started a rocket program under the nazi regime.

Travis:

You do not get to his level without having some very uh naughty, some, yes, some very nazi oh no, I said naughty yeah okay, but you said nazi, nazi, you don't you don't get to his position without following along with the philosophy of nazism yeah, he was up at the top he was at the top, he was one of their top scientists and we brought him over.

Travis:

He said, yes, I will come over, but you have to pardon all my war crimes, everything that I did for the nazi regime and we did it and we did it and he became the head of nasa at the time. He became come over, but you have to pardon all of my war crimes, everything that I did for the.

Josh:

Nazi regime.

Travis:

You had to pardon it, and we did it, and we did it.

Josh:

And he became the head of NASA at the time.

Travis:

He became the head of NASA. The rocket program we have is due to him, but I don't Like him. I don't, I don't like him.

Josh:

That's an understatement.

Travis:

He had a very adept mathematical mind, but his social philosophies are trash and I just want to be on record by saying that I do not agree with Nazism and I think it's bad.

Josh:

Note taken.

Travis:

Not bad, don't do it. Don't do Nazis.

Josh:

If I had the opportunity to kill millions of people, I wouldn't.

Travis:

I wouldn't either. Yeah, I think that's a very healthy stance yeah, so I think I think we're safe.

Josh:

Yeah, so, with him being the head of nasa, a large portion of the apollo 13 rocket was intentionally crashed into the moon. This time, the moon rang for over three hours, as if resonating through a hollow structure. And then there's the phenomenon of the solar eclipse. The moon is positioned at such a perfect distance from earth that it precisely covers the sun during a total eclipse right well, which we learned in the documentary is not true.

Travis:

It doesn't precisely. There's a lot of bleed over from the sun and the moon because of the lack of atmosphere up there, it is losing. It's actually shrinking a little bit yeah, and it's getting further away.

Josh:

Yeah, so I would imagine at some point it was perfect. Sure, during its existence, sure. So statistically, this is a rare cosmic coincidence. To theorists, it's evidence of intentional design, almost as if the moon were placed there to act as a perfect shield and perhaps to stabilize life on Earth.

Travis:

Like I was talking about earlier and this is where it gets interesting to me, not as a alien craft, but if there were aliens that had a hand in which is covered in a lot of sci-fi, even, uh, stargate they talk about, you know, aliens coming to earth and I love helping yeah, helping move human civilization along, which I think is a fascinating idea.

Josh:

It's the best possible outcome.

Travis:

Yeah, I like that as a theory that it was placed here. That is the closest I will get to admitting that the Earth is hollow, which I, the moon, god damn it. Take this out on editing Every time.

Josh:

I say hollow Earth.

Travis:

Josh, I want to hear an edit where it's your voice saying moon, where I'm saying hollow after I'm saying hollow it'll be a little baby's voice saying moon that'll be really funny yeah.

Josh:

So if the moon were hollow or even artificial, who or what created it and why? While mainstream science dismisses these ideas of speculation, the hollow moon theory has captured the imagination of those who believe in the possibilities beyond the accepted knowledge. So there are some things that back up the hollow moon theory. Right, there's a lot of things. So some of the things the moon's surface rocks are older than the rocks beneath them. This is wild, it's backwards, it doesn't make sense.

Josh:

The only way that that could happen that we've seen on Earth is if you mine and bring up the old rocks with a drill or an explosion and then those things come out and lay on top of the newer Earth. And it's consistent. It's not just here and there. It's not like an asteroid hit the moon and then all of a sudden there's little areas and pockets outside of the asteroid craters that have that happening. It's consistent around the entire moon. There's also the moon's density. It's lower than expected, especially considering the density of its surface rocks. The rocks are super dense, very magnetic, which also the moon is not magnetic, and they're very old, but the density of the moon, which I don't know. How they can figure out, the density of a moon first of all. That is beyond my intelligence.

Travis:

Like a giant.

Josh:

Well, no, a giant scale. Is that what you're going to say? A giant scale.

Travis:

Yeah, they just put on a scale. You can do that through infrared readings. It's the same thing that we use here on earth. We can tell how dense something is by bouncing infrared rays off of it.

Josh:

Okay, I'm wondering if they could. I mean, cause we do stuff where we do ground penetrating radar, if they can do that up there. But if these rocks are super magnetic, then that ground penetrating radar would not work because the magnets would get in the way. So there's also that abundance of titanium, chromium and zirconium on the moon, metals known for their strength and corrosion resistance, suggesting that it is artificially reinforced, which is the materials that we would use if we were going to make something reinforced and last forever. These are very rare rocks.

Travis:

We're not finding evidence of every moon rock. Well, it just says abundance of these moon rocks and metals are there, yeah, but we would probably find an abundance of those rocks here on Earth. No, it's a rare thing on Earth, well, that we know of. Like I said, the water is like 80%. We're not going through the ocean and picking up every weird ass rock that we see in the ocean. We're barely even touching the ocean.

Josh:

Have you ever been to the ocean?

Travis:

Yeah, it's big. Do you pick up a rock?

Josh:

I don't know, I throw it right back in the water. So there are people going and picking up stuff.

Travis:

But I'm not looking at rocks like, oh this is weird, turn this into nasa well, you're missing out.

Josh:

That's what me and my family do. Do you really that's? No, that would be kind of fun, though I found this weird rock, just send it in the mail, put it in an envelope with a stamp on it what you think? Yeah, there's also what we talked about.

Travis:

The uranium and neptunium elements not naturally occurring raises questions as well we're talking about rare, though we're not talking about unfound or like non-existent. It's rare, that means that it exists, it's just not common for the metals, yes, but the uranium and neptunium?

Josh:

it doesn't exist unless we combine things or separate things to create it. Well, it's also weird that just the position of the moon is at the perfect position for life to be on Earth like you mentioned.

Travis:

Oh, okay, so yes, and that is that it perfectly stabilizes seasons and the tides Correct.

Josh:

So if there was not a moon, earth would still exist, there would still be life and we have. It would just be erratic conditions.

Travis:

We don't know what that would look like. There are, like I said, millions, billions of other planets out there that have moons. We don't know if it has life. Yes, what happened here is very specific to Earth. That's not to say that it's not happening anywhere else, it's just happening here and it seems to be, as far as we can tell, very rare. Yes, and the moon is a big part of that. So if it was designed, that means that there's some other being out there that created this. Or we use the research that we have available and say that it was an absolute coincidence or it just happened. Things came together in just the right way. It's that Goldilocks formula, like things here on Earth were perfect, they were all just right, impossibly right, not impossible, because it happened. But how'd it happen? I don't know. I don't know, I don't know. Tell me, that's a different podcast.

Josh:

There are ancient texts and oral traditions from various cultures around the world that describe a time before the moon existed yeah, so when I first heard that, my first thought was someone was writing things and talking about it. But that's not what it is. There are creation stories through all these different religions and ancient texts that just describe how everything was created yeah, but there are also philosophers of ancient times that have talked about civilizations that existed before the moon.

Travis:

I don't think so.

Josh:

Well, I'm just saying those. I know those writings exist.

Travis:

I am expressing my own opinion. I'm not saying that my exist. I'm expressing my own opinion. I'm not saying that my opinion is at all fact. My opinion is. I should let you finish. That's my opinion. I'm really sorry that I keep cutting you off.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

I didn't think that I was going to get this worked up about it.

Josh:

Honestly, I wish that you would get this worked up about it on the opposite side, where you believe it. I wish you would get this worked up about not believing it. I believe that you will be a true and faithful soldier someday for the ufologists and we will get you there with the help of our faithful listeners.

Travis:

Okay, please, okay. I'm not trying to indoctrinate you, but I feel like I'm getting indoctrinated maybe so.

Josh:

there were old philosophers that mentioned civilizations that lived before the moon, and these are not part of creation stories, but it's also not firsthand experience. It's oral tradition that has come down to these authors.

Travis:

Oral traditions are notoriously faulty, it's like the game of telephone.

Josh:

Most of these oral traditions come from traveling merchants, so that's why we get a lot of the same stories from all these different religions. Is these trade routes? That's what they did when they were done traveling. They sat down the fire around a well and just told stories that they've heard from other places.

Travis:

Like the most famous of these, as Beowulf, great Norse warrior, goes on this quest to eliminate a threat. It's storytelling, and it's the easiest thing for us to wrap our mind around. Is that we all procreate the same way, right?

Josh:

Usually stories are based in fact. So the game of telephone starts out with a truth and then it gets really wonky. Yeah, so we have some wonkiness, but all these stories from all around the world. There was a time without a moon, or a time before creation. There was also things in the sky, aliens or something came down and brought the moon Right, like the Sumerians.

Travis:

Parts of the Zulu nation.

Josh:

Yeah, and then all the way on the other side of the world.

Travis:

Life on earth could not exist as it is without a moon.

Josh:

You know what? I'll let you have that. What if that moon's hollow Way?

Travis:

to bring it back.

Josh:

I'm just saying like, yeah, okay, fine, the moon has always been there, but what if it's hollow?

Travis:

What if it's hollow indeed?

Josh:

You know what? I'm looking at my notes and we're at the point where there's counter arguments.

Travis:

I believe I.

Josh:

Maybe I can interrupt you.

Travis:

Really read me for filth, josh. So the scientific community overwhelmingly accepts that the moon has a solid internal structure. Explanations for lunar anomalies exist within conventional science, although some remain debated. There's some density discrepancies attributed to differentiation during lunar formation, unusual seismic activity explained by the moon's unique composition and lack of a substantial atmosphere. Perfect eclipses are considered a coincidence, with the moon's apparent size gradually decreasing over time. I'm not a scientist, so a lot of this stuff just sounds like okay, blah-ba-dee-blah, blah-blah-ba-dee-blah. I'm just using my own dumb, like I said, legal moron understanding of what I know of the moon, and that's, I guess you know, maybe opinion, but it's opinion based in my own research.

Josh:

There's a lot of questions about the moon and the only theory that has all of those questions answered is the hollow moon theory. All these other scientific theories, which I want to remind you, they are all theories. There's little things that just don't add up. But the one that has the most things that add up is the hollow moon theory.

Travis:

In your expert opinion. But we're getting to the point now where it's kind of like an echo chamber where the only thing that's being researched is something that validates this and there's not enough that discredits this theory. That's, I think, my role on this show is I'm going to put a lot of time and work into making me feel like shit. No, I don't want to make you feel like shit, but I do feel like it's a responsibility to put the other information out there.

Josh:

Honestly off podcast. I think it is a great conversation. Oh yeah, and what makes us unique is that we are who we are.

Travis:

Yep 100%.

Josh:

I'm also curious on your thoughts on this. So when was the last time we were at the moon? You said 2013, or was that?

Travis:

That was an unmanned so 72., 76.

Josh:

That is bizarre because we have the technology. It absolutely is. Obviously we have the technology. We had it in the freaking seventies. Why haven't we gone back? That's weird.

Josh:

We are humans on a planet. We should be really investigating some of these things. We're finding buildings and structures from way older than we ever thought we would. We're finding really weird things outside of our planet. Why aren't we investigating them? And I think this is is my thought is that it will go against our basic science and discredit a lot of the top people in the scientific field and these people that are in charge of the science community will not have that, because it'll make everything that they have said and researched wrong. I got a little tangent, I'm sorry. I hate the process and the due diligence that they have to go through to get their research done, and a lot of the things that they have to do is sacrifice some of their honor to get done what they need to be done, and then they don't get the full results or they get stopped because they don't get funding anymore, because it's not interesting.

Travis:

And that's where I land on this is that nobody really has been back to the moon since 72. And I feel like it was part of that space race where somebody just wanted to be first and that was it. Like we aren't putting forth those efforts to go and explore the oceans, but we were the first to get to the moon and so we're like, ok, we did that, now we're done. There was really nothing up there, so let's just move on.

Josh:

Well, and that was the recorded reason of why the last handful of Apollo missions were canceled was because they lost funding, and they also mentioned there was a lack of interest. Yeah, I mean there's lots of people that have the interest, they just don't have the money or the voice there. I mean there's lots of people that have the interest, they just don't have the money or the voice. There's tons of people with interest. So I think the people with the money lost the interest or they're hiding something, because we saw footage very short footage in a video that we watched together.

Travis:

The press conference.

Josh:

The press conference when the astronauts came back.

Travis:

We saw a clip that was placed in an edited video of a press conference. That happened 40 years ago, 50 years ago, whenever, how long I don't know.

Josh:

Math. No one can figure that kind of math out.

Travis:

Okay, so 50 years ago or whatever, we saw a clip that somebody had put in to validate their point and I think that that's a fair part of that video essay that we watched. But I don't necessarily think that that is true of their feeling, nor does it back up the claim that they were scared or it wasn't a scientific marvel to go to the moon. There are a lot of different factors that are at play. At that. That could have been a long day. That could have been the 10th interview of a hundred and they're just running out of steam. It could have been any number of things.

Josh:

So to read into it like Well, and their bodies are readjusting to Earth. Sure, because when you're in space you have to be very careful. I mean your blood pools. You have to exercise a lot because your blood will not distribute correctly, your food doesn't digest.

Travis:

Yep, we've evolved to live on Earth, and so when we get up to a zero gravity environment, our body does not know how to function.

Josh:

You know what's interesting? Up until yesterday I thought that we had the technology. Because of media, I thought we had the technology to turn on and off gravity, even though I know we have no control of gravity. I've watched enough sci-fi movies where they are up in space and they turn gravity on so that they can walk normal in space. For some reason I knew that doesn't exist, but I also thought it did.

Travis:

Have you seen the movie? Thank you for smoking? Yes, there's a line in that that I use a lot. So they're pitching this new cigarette right, they're trying to get advertising out about it and they're like, yeah, we're going to have this bang and sex scene between these two leads. They're going to have this bang and sex scene between these two leads. They're going to be on a space station and then afterwards they're going to smoke a cigarette because the sex was so hot.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

Somebody that's in this meeting was like well, you can't smoke in a vacuum. And they're like, well, we'll just fix that with one line of dialogue, thank God for the whatever blah, blah blah device, and so I use that all the time. It's like well, thank god, it's fixed with one line of dialogue, you can do that with anything. Yeah, it's true. So we can manipulate gravity, but we can't control it. Gravity is a force just like, just like love, uh, a force greater than anything else on this earth and really that's why we started this podcast is live gravity, oh, what uh gravity.

Travis:

We should have rehearsed that yeah uh, I meant love I meant gravity.

Josh:

So I just want to conclude we got on tangents, we got on things. Obviously you believe in the hollow moon, um so, let's just conclude this what, what a reversal oh, all right.

Josh:

Hollow earth? I'm sorry. Yeah, so the hollow moon theory. There isn't a lot of mainstream scientists that support this idea. There are genuine lunar anomalies that appeal to alternative explanations, but that's just what it is Alternatives, it's theories. Everything is a theory. The moon, for me, is weird. Until we started doing research on this episode, I've never thought about the moon. The only conspiracy thing I've heard is the moon landing being fake.

Travis:

I think about the moon all the time. It is, you might say, my Roman Empire.

Josh:

Okay, what.

Travis:

There's this theory that men think about the Roman Empire at least once to eight times a day. What Every day, yep.

Josh:

And this is a theory.

Travis:

This is mostly a joke to me. It's like taken through questions and when men were asked they did like a population sample. Asked a group of men, how often do you think about the Roman Empire, a huge chunk of them were like oh, I think about it all the time.

Josh:

So they just all lied? Maybe they do so. While some of the present evidence can be dismissed as misinterpretations or speculations, the theory highlights an enduring fascination with the moon and the mysteries it may hold. And they are mysteries because everything is a theory and now everyone on this podcast believes it. I would love to hear where I could have done better at convincing Travis that this is all real. And if you're on Travis's side you don't think it's real, Come at me.

Travis:

Let's get divisive. Let's separate our camps, let's have a definitive. We'll call them the Travis Wolfs and the Josh. What Moons, yeah.

Josh:

Because I just like to howl, at you. Yeah, see I just like to howl at you.

Travis:

Yeah, see what I did there.

Josh:

I did so. We'll have links in our notes, some of the videos that we watched and some fan mail. If you guys want to send us some stuff, you can do it right through the app. At this point in the show, we will now do our final thoughts, which is also, ironically, the name of the show Final thoughts Aliens, which is also, ironically, the name of the show. Final thoughts Aliens yes, but maybe no. Right. Right, that's the show.

Travis:

I was confused. You said the name of the show was Final Thoughts.

Josh:

Final Thoughts with Josh and Travis yeah, it's just our dying thoughts.

Travis:

Just the last thing that we hope goes through our brain when we die.

Josh:

Yeah, sounds sad. So on the scale of aliens, yes, maybe or no, I'm at like a 90%. Yes, I know it's wacky, I know it's crazy, but the actual scientific theories through scientists that have not been corrupted by crazy don't necessarily line up and they don't have all the answers that I'm looking for. This has a lot more answers and I'm going to lean more on the aliens, maybe.

Travis:

Okay, so you're 90% though, so that's like yeah, I'm not a hundred percent.

Josh:

I'm not going to go picket the street saying the moon is hollow Not that the street saying the moon is hollow?

Travis:

Not that for me. I am closing the book on this theory in my head as a definitive no, hard no. Um. No, the moon is not hollow and it's not a whole spaceship. That is my, that's my feeling, and I got it right this time.

Josh:

I said you did. I'm proud of you.

Travis:

I'm growing. And with that we are now gonna do Our baseline quiz. That's our baseline quiz song, right?

Josh:

So I don't know what this topic is yet I'm curious we don't get the quiz Until halfway through our recording.

Travis:

Cause I'm a cheater.

Josh:

Because Travis has cheated in the past. I cheated one time, he cheated one time and we do not Never forgive. Trust him no, and people don't change. No, I actually believe people can change.

Travis:

Yeah, but not Travis. You leave me in a room with a cookie jar full of quiz answers and I'm going to eat every last one.

Josh:

Every time he will reach his hand in there.

Travis:

Yeah, every time.

Josh:

Yeah, okay. So it looks like our next episode is going to be about congressional UAP hearings. So I've been hearing about this, I've watched some of the stuff, so I know a little bit about what's going on and I also know it's a really big deal. So we have some questions and we'll have some answers Hopefully correct answers. So, travis and I don't know much about this I don't know anything about it, surprising nobody.

Travis:

Um, this is going to turn out exactly the way all these quizzes turned out, with a big goose egg on my side and probably, uh, a blue ribbon on yours. Is that what we're doing? Goose egg and a blue ribbon?

Josh:

yeah, I mean, if you don't want the goose egg, I'll take it I mean like you're talking about a real goose egg.

Travis:

Yeah, I want, I want the blue ribbon.

Josh:

Oh well, that's mine. You can't have both. What I want the blue ribbon, and if you don't want the egg, I'll take the egg and keep the blue ribbon.

Travis:

Okay, well, josh gets both now.

Josh:

Okay, so here we go. Here's our baseline quiz on the congressional UAP hearings. I'm really excited to do this episode.

Travis:

This isn't the one we're expecting to happen, right? This is just like.

Josh:

We're talking about the hearings, so the hearings that have happened so far, since, whatever year?

Travis:

I don't know, that's what I'm saying?

Josh:

That's the first question.

Travis:

What it is, yeah, okay, yeah, we'll see if that's what I'm saying, that's the first question.

Josh:

What it is.

Travis:

Yeah.

Josh:

Okay, when did the first public US congressional hearings on UFOs since 1966 take place? 2017? Mm-hmm. 2022? Mm-hmm. 2019? Mm-hmm. 2024? Mm-hmm. So when did the first? What do you think? I think 2022. I think 2022. I think that as well. Oh, I don't know if it's right, but I just remember, during lockdown. There was some stuff.

Travis:

There was some stuff that happened and we're like this is the least. Yeah, Interesting thing that happened on this new cycle is that the government acknowledged that there's a possibility that alien life exists.

Josh:

Yeah, covid happened. Everyone was in awe for a day and then they just forgot about it. Yep, yeah, we both said 2022. Next question what historical event did Representative Mace cite as a reason for continued public interest in UAPs? Is it the Phoenix Lights incident, the Roswell incident, the Kenneth Arnold sighting or the Malmstrom Air Force Base incident?

Travis:

Okay, so we haven't talked about the latter two.

Josh:

We did, kenneth Arnold.

Travis:

Barely.

Josh:

I think it was a shorter episode.

Travis:

It was an entire episode on Kenneth Arnold, though, wasn't it?

Josh:

Mm-hmm.

Travis:

Oh fuck, that's why I do so well on these.

Josh:

That was the guy in Idaho.

Travis:

Okay, we've done three of these as episodes but we have not done the maelstrom air force base incident, so I am going to. What do you tell me? Since I answered first last time, you tell me what your answer is? I think it is the phoenix lights incident okay but I don't know because kurt russell, being a celebrity, helped move that needle forward a little bit.

Josh:

Yeah, I think he was trying to get some kudos from Kurt. Who was trying to get kudos from Kurt the?

Travis:

government.

Josh:

Representative Mace.

Travis:

Oh yeah, I think his wife had a birthday coming up and she's a really big fan.

Josh:

Okay, so I think the Phoenix Lights. What do you?

Travis:

think I don't know, I don't know, I don't know anything about Malmstrom Air Force Base.

Josh:

I don't either.

Travis:

I'm going to say that, okay, just because.

Josh:

I was tempted.

Travis:

Yeah, okay, I'm picking that as a lucky dip.

Josh:

All right. So next question what specific piece of legislation was mentioned as a potential model for handling the disclosure of UAP-related information? Is it the Freedom of Information Act, the National Security Act of 1947, the JFK Assassination Records Collection Act or the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004?

Travis:

I don't know. I'm going to say Freedom of Information Act.

Josh:

I mean that would make the most sense.

Travis:

Disclosing this is information but who knows, like how wild these, I mean they, they could be citing all sorts of acts and like trials and court cases and who knows? But I'm gonna say, like as an umbrella, as a safety freedom of information act, which is like trying to democratize all information all information is important yep, release it all and we'll decide what we're going to do with it.

Josh:

Yeah, so that is what I'm going to pick.

Travis:

You're going to be wrong, so just get used to that Okay. Okay, just because I picked it.

Josh:

I know I've come to terms with that, all right. Next question what term did David Grush prefer to use when describing what was retrieved from crashed UAP? Was it non-human bodies, aliens, pilots or biologics? I think I know the answer but you should Non-human bodies.

Travis:

We talked about this on the Baubles R episode. I don't know who had found it. I'm just saying that is my memory, but we all know my memory sucks because I don't remember an entire episode that we recorded.

Josh:

That's okay.

Travis:

So non-human bodies is what I'm going to say.

Josh:

Okay, I'm going to say biologics.

Travis:

Oh, that was my gut. I don't know what biologics are, so you could be right.

Josh:

Okay, so next question.

Travis:

Feeling pretty bad about these, it's okay. It's just normal.

Josh:

What was the name of the unacknowledged special access program entered into the congressional record in 2024's hearing? Was it?

Travis:

Immaculate Constellation. That's really funny. High five, Jordan.

Josh:

So first one that you chuckled at Immaculate Constellation, immaculate Constellation. First one that you chuckled at Immaculate Constellation, immaculate Constellation Pristine Array, faultless Stars or Impeccable Entity? I know the answer, so you answer first.

Travis:

Okay, pristine Array is going to be my. What's the name of the unacknowledged Hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me read this again Shit. I think it's either pristine array or impeccable entity, but I'm going to land on pristine array.

Josh:

Okay, that's great. I am going to pick immaculate constellation, oh shit.

Travis:

Really? Yeah, you know the answer to this. Yeah, immaculate constellation is really funny.

Josh:

It is very funny until you hear about it.

Travis:

Uh-oh.

Josh:

And I'm excited to dig deeper into it because I don't know.

Travis:

I thought that was a joke answer. Now I look like a total idiot.

Josh:

Well, you know what? Well, it was a redacted, black-funded operation through the Pentagon. I'm talking about just the name of it.

Travis:

I'm not talking about any of the documents within this. Well, what if all the redacted programs are funny names. I think that would rule. It would be so funny.

Josh:

Okay, last, that would be so funny. Okay, last question which of the following actions was specifically recommended by a witness during one of the hearings to improve civilian UAP reporting? Is it establishing a dedicated hotline for UAP sightings, leveraging NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System, asrs, creating a new government agency focused solely on UAPs, or mandating that all pilots report any unusual aerial sightings? I think it should be all of them, first of all.

Travis:

I agree. Mandating that all pilots report any unusual aerial sightings, though, is like how do you report on that? That's a subjective thing. Yeah, because one person might see something and say oh, that's obviously a fucking condor and somebody might say like I don't, then look into it right, but like if you don't think it's unusual, but you saw something and you don't report it, then like what's done there? That's I don't know.

Josh:

That actually sounds like something that they would be asking for, like follow-up action on I don't like the hotline thing, Cause I feel like that's I mean, that sounds like that would be a phone thing, which.

Travis:

I mean it could be. It could be like a hotline in a relative term, where it's like a specific email address.

Josh:

Or a website? Yeah, I don't know the answer. So I'm going to say creating a new government agency focused solely on UAPs.

Travis:

That's mine.

Josh:

I think that's right, but I'm going to say mandating that all pilots report any unusual aerial sightings, because it's just like I mean that's a great idea, because it has been taboo, because people will get fired for being crazy, it's just like, yeah, okay, well, if somebody sees something we'll report it, but like, don't hold your breath.

Travis:

It's like that low level concession that you can make you could just get people off their back. They're like these guys keep telling us that they're seeing shit out there.

Josh:

Well this is what a witness.

Travis:

You guys have to tell us if you see weird shit. Okay, we're all in agreement. That's like a rule now.

Josh:

This is a witness. That's what.

Travis:

I'm saying Right, but they said that this is a witness recommended.

Josh:

And some of the witnesses. I do know we're pilots yes, that's what I'm saying.

Travis:

This is a low level thing to get these people off the government's back like, yeah, we're doing something about it. We told them that they have to tell us and the government doesn't have to do fucking anything about it yeah, because they don't nothing has to change yeah, nothing does have to change, except there might be some protection for the pilots if they do.

Josh:

All right, let's submit this. Do you accuracy? Okay, we got the first one right 2022.

Travis:

Yeah, that's the first one since then, and then it was just like I said it fell off dramatically. Yeah, so I was wrong.

Josh:

It was not the phoenix lights that representative mace cited, and it was not the maelstrom air force base. It was the roswell incident. Yeah, that's cool. So next question what specific piece of legislation was mentioned? It was not the Freedom Act, which is what we said. We both said that that made sense.

Travis:

Could have been a wild thing. And yeah, the JFK Assassination Records Collection Act.

Josh:

Yeah, I don't know what that act is.

Travis:

I don't either, but just like taking a tert knowledge of like that trial and there was a lot that was being kept, and so they use this. They do this a lot in like court proceedings where they'll reference another ruling and then use that to be interpreted into what it is that they're trying here, and so they probably use some aspect of that, like these JFK files had to be released and they were doing the same thing with Nixon, like his Watergate stuff.

Josh:

Yeah, okay. So next one. What term did david grush prefer to use when describing what was retrieved from crashed uap? I said biologics, you said non-human bodies biologics was correct. Yeah, and it got really annoying how often he used it. I remember that it was like okay, we get it, you're being careful with your words. Next question what was the name of the unacknowledged special access program in the congressional hearing in 2024? Oh man, it was Immaculate.

Travis:

Consolation, which is just so funny to me. It is.

Josh:

And I'm super excited to hear more about that. Okay, because I hear it's batshit crazy. Final question, last one which of the following actions was specifically recommended by the witnesses? I said creating a new government agency. That is wrong. You said.

Travis:

I said mandating that all pilots report any unusual aerial sightings.

Josh:

That's wrong. It was leveraging NASA's aviation safety reporting system.

Travis:

I think that that was probably still right though what I said. I bet that they did tell their pilots hey, you got to report all this stuff, but it's not going to change anything else that they do. They're probably already doing it, but now it's just like well, it's on record. Now you have to do it.

Josh:

The main point of these hearings is the safety of humans. Yeah, and there's been crazy incidences with pilots where some planes have been clipped by UAPs. I mean some of these pilots coming in and testifying. They are testifying because they want their fellow pilots to be safe, so it would make sense for them to put something like that into place. Well, thank you for listening. This has been a pleasure. I am excited to do this next episode.

Josh:

Full of hot takes Super hot takes. We're excited to hear from you guys and what you guys think and we will talk to you next time you listen. Bye.

People on this episode

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Josh Snodgrass

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Travis Wright

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