Aliens? Yes! But Maybe No

Bob Lazar: Area 51, UFOs, and Conspiracies

• Episode 2

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In this episode, we’re trying to unravel everything we know (which isn't much) about Bob Lazar.

We're tackling his claims of working on alien spacecrafts, trying to figure out if he's a genius, a con artist, or just a dude with a very colorful past. Are we onto something groundbreaking? Unlikely. Are we having fun anyway? Absolutely.

So, strap in, keep an open mind, and join us for another episode of semi-educated speculation, wild theories, and just the right amount of skepticism.

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Intro:

Aliens Aliens, yes.

Travis:

All right, so welcome to the show. Aliens, yes, but maybe no. I travis, and I am josh, and this is an otherworldly podcast, as ambiguous as our title. Now, just just for the listener. I believe in aliens pretty strongly. Uh, I think that they exist. I think that our universe is too big, uh, for them not to exist. I think that it's just a matter of like, I don't know evolution and space and it. Anyway, like I said, our universe is huge, so for there not to be aliens makes me feel a little uncomfortable in my brain. Yeah, that being said, we're gonna talk today about a documentary that we watched called bob lazar, colon, area 51 and ufos, uf. Is that what it's called? Area 51, ufo and and?

Travis:

such okay, I just wanted to get the title. Oh, it's area 51, ampersand flying saucers. So, yeah, we're talking about this documentary that I watched. Josh sent it to me, so this is going to be the topic for our show. I watched it last night. Did you rent it? No, it's on tubi. Oh, is it okay? I bought it free with ads. Yeah, I bought it, okay, man money bags.

Josh:

No, I just want to sound just like an owner like throwing money around.

Travis:

So so where did you buy? You buy through amazon, yes amazon like four bucks, or rent it I think it was five.

Josh:

We bought it. Renting was like $3.99 and buying it was five.

Travis:

Okay, yeah, I didn't I just I found it on Tubi Tubi's doing a lot of heavy lifting for media consumption for me lately. That's free. You should check it out, I should. I've heard good things. It has ads, though, so you I mean, if there's things that I don't have to buy. I don't mind ads. Yeah, tubi has a lot of shit. Okay, tubi, if you're listening. Uh, sponsorship would be nice. Yeah, tubi, I'll promote the shit out of you.

Josh:

Yeah, I already do well, there you go, there you go, there we go, let's podcast we, uh, we introduced a documentary.

Travis:

Uh, bob lazar, colon, area 51, ampersand flying saucers. Right, that's good, that's all yeah, that's all we need.

Josh:

So bob is one of the more influential whistleblowers of the alien and ufo community.

Travis:

This was a 2018 documentary. Just oh, was it really first? Yeah for those that are interested in how current it is so it was done in collaboration with a guy named george knapp this documentary. He had an interview at the very beginning of this right. That was him in the pool. They had terrible audio.

Josh:

Yeah, that was crazy yeah, that audio, it is like pool room I don't.

Travis:

Maybe it was his pool room, maybe it was a hotel that he just decided to meet in, but it wasn't, I mean it was what you would expect a recording to sound like an echoey room with a pool, it was. It was a bad choice to decide to record that piece of his or an artistic choice, because there was a lot of artistic things wild artistic choices made in this correct? Yeah, yeah, okay, so you were. You're saying about bob lazar, before I interrupted you he was one of the the original whistleblowers.

Travis:

Uh, what 40, 30 years ago, uh 1980, 89 is this like is 87 to 89 is when he called out area 51.

Josh:

So 1989 is when he had his interview. Is that check?

Travis:

in with your notes.

Josh:

Yep, okay, so 1989,. He had an interview with George Knapp. We got to see this interview in the documentary.

Travis:

Yep, where he's in a truck and you see him awkwardly step out of the truck. So they must have gotten like the raw footage from that, because I don't think they would have aired that part of it. No, he's in the truck and then he just kind of opens the truck door and gets out and then you could almost see him. And if you, I'm not that familiar with Bob Lazar, but they dropped this in this documentary about 10 minutes in. Maybe they'd already talked to Bob Lazar or had like interviews of him talking, so you knew what his profile looked like, what Bob Lazar or had like interviews of him talking, so you knew what his profile looked like.

Josh:

So if you knew what Bob.

Travis:

Lazar looked and sounded and sound like he's got a very distinct voice. If you knew what he sounded like, I mean you, you would, you would know exactly who was being hidden. Yeah, yeah, it was very you would hone right in on who that was.

Josh:

It was almost comical. It's like if, if you went and did an interview about me, yeah, Half your face was blackened.

Travis:

Or I did an interview about my dogs and my family watched it and they were like, well, that's weird.

Josh:

Why is Travis doing this?

Travis:

Why is he in silhouette?

Josh:

Why is he trying to hide himself poorly?

Travis:

Yeah.

Josh:

It's strange, because the topic of the movie was futuristic science and they couldn't modulate his voice. Because the topic of the movie was futuristic science Well, just taking, and they couldn't modulate his voice.

Travis:

Something that's been in the popular vernacular for a long time. Like people have always assumed Area 51's been around, I thought Area 51 was like from the 60s, so like Men in Black 2, where they go back to the 50s or whatever.

Travis:

Yeah, or is that 3? But anyway they go back to the 50s and they're having first contact with aliens and that's when that agency started. I just assumed that lined up with when our knowledge of aliens in Area 51 started as well. I didn't realize that it was as recent as 1989 that it became part of like popular culture.

Josh:

Like people started being like what is this?

Travis:

Yeah, and I think the military even denied after he said right and according to our notes, um, it was officially recognized in 2013. Are you serious?

Josh:

Well, that's crazy, and and so Bob worked. We found out that he worked in a like a sub area of area 51. It was 12 or 14 miles out into a hillside or into a mountainside called S4. It was near the Nellis Air Force Base, which is what we know as Area 51.

Travis:

And he claimed the site consisted of concealed aircraft hangars built into the mountainside and that his job was to help with reverse engineering nine flying saucers, which he alleged were extraterrestrial in origin yeah, he said that the technology we did not have the technology to build a craft like this and he points out this thing that's referred to as element 115, which is called unup ununpentium I think which is very similar to like unobtainium, which which is James Cameron's element in Avatar. So maybe James Cameron's got a finger in this pie, I don't know. Probably Then it was scientifically recognized as microbium and he said that this element that was on the sphere in this documentary repulsed human flesh, and I don't mean like repulse, like made you sick, like it was like a Like it was an ugly element.

Josh:

Yeah, it was an ugly element. Yeah, it was like ugly.

Travis:

Well, yeah, ununpentium, or whatever it's called. It's kind of a it's a mouthful to say, but he said when he was reaching towards this orb, it pushed his hands back like a force field, and so he was absolutely fascinated by this and the way he got so, just like as part of this documentary we watched. He had talked about his interview with the physicist that was hiring as head physicist for Area 51, or whatever he said. He built a reactor.

Josh:

A hydrogen collider.

Travis:

Yeah, yeah, particle, particle accelerator that he had in his room.

Josh:

Yeah, when he was a kid.

Travis:

Well like a teenager probably college. He said he had one in his room at the time, so and we're taking his word for it.

Josh:

That's true. So yeah, he claims he worked on reverse engineering, alien technology, the discovery of element 115. 115. It was the fuel for the spacecrafts and the existence of extraterrestrial spacecrafts Mm-hmm. That's his claims. Terrestrial spacecrafts. That's his claims and you can read more. He has a testimony on his website, Bob Lazarcom.

Travis:

Humble plug. Yeah, what are we, bob Lazar shills? Are we shilling for?

Josh:

Bob Lazar. So he came onto this, this news station in Nevada, with George Knapp, yeah, and I was very confused, like I thought. You know he was a whistleblower because he wanted the world to have the greater knowledge. I don't know, I just. But he did it because he wanted to protect himself. He says they can't kill me if I'm out and about with this information.

Travis:

Okay, that's, that's wild. I mean, they could, they could.

Josh:

Yeah, I mean, look at the the Boeing whistleblowers two of them died. Yeah, I mean, look at the Boeing whistleblowers Two of them died. Listening to him, he regrets it. Sometimes he kind of wishes that he didn't come out.

Travis:

Well, that's yeah, that's the not the problem but that's a thing that whistleblowers all have to take into consideration is coming out from the shadows, no matter what it is, whether it's, you know, boeing or a government agency, there are consequences for that. Like, you're not just going to say this is happening, we need to draw attention to it and think you're not going to have any consequences for that. So that is the fear that all whistleblowers have. If he was a true whistleblower, then that was a brave thing to do. That's it's a hard thing.

Josh:

Absolutely. And I also listened to the Joe Rogan interview and he was really surprised that no one else that he worked with came out. Yeah, and it actually probably cemented. Well, do you think that's because there's no like.

Travis:

Do you think it was made up? Do you think you made all this stuff up?

Josh:

I don't think so and just has like a working knowledge of chemistry. It's possible but there's just too many things that he talked about that were denied that eventually. I mean just like element 115, they all denied it, denied it, denied it, and now it's on the periodic table, yeah, which is crazy. So, after he came out, did this long thing, just bluntly, just first sentence. He didn't ease into this whistleblow. Yeah, he's just. I saw alien aircrafts. Right, okay, I have been reverse engineering.

Travis:

There's even part of his testimony where he's like. I was walking down a hall and I saw two regularly sized human beings talking to a very short creature with very long arms.

Josh:

He mentioned that in the movie yeah. Did he later in the movie say no, I don't think that that was an actual alien.

Travis:

No, he didn't say. Later he did say that he saw the inside of the craft and that the seats were very small and he's like imagine we were designing a ship for children. That's what this would look like.

Josh:

Okay, so I think it was the Joe Rogan. He's like no, I don't think I actually saw an alien. I think it was two scientists with a dummy sitting there in the seat, like they put together a dummy to see what the size would be for the chair.

Travis:

Okay, cause his his testimony in this documentary was and I I might be wrong, but they were standing in a hallway talking down to an alien or an extraterrestrial being.

Josh:

Yeah, he was walking down the hallway and there was a 18 by 18 window into the room and he just looked in and I think he got in trouble for looking in too.

Travis:

Yeah, no, looky-loos, yep, that's their policy. They have that written on the walls at Area 5.

Josh:

No, looky-loos no looky-loos.

Travis:

If you got time to look, you got time to cook up some more Element 115,. Get back to work.

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

It's just a big meth lab for Element 115. Well, I mean not meth but yeah, so Bob is a Bob Laser.

Josh:

He is a propulsions expert.

Travis:

So that's why he was hired to make that joke.

Josh:

Oh, yeah, absolutely cool. Uh, he was a propulsions expert who was featured in the news for a jet car that he used to drive to work. Later, which we'll get into this next segment is how his whistleblowing was not received well, so the immediate reaction from the scientific community in the media was insane. Everyone just shunned him. There was a ton of efforts to discredit him and we think that I mean it looks as though the government responded by just trying to scrub his existence. It didn't seem like they focused very much on that, they just kind of dabbled in it a little bit on the movie. I mean it was crazy. Yes, it was crazy. Focused very much on that, they just kind of dabbled in it a little bit on the movie.

Josh:

I mean it was crazy yes, it was crazy it would drive me crazy if something like that happened, if I said something and all of a sudden they right we, I mean, we talked about this.

Travis:

We talked about, like, the risks of whistleblowing.

Josh:

That's, uh, it's, it's a real threat, no matter where you're, where you're employed but to have the resources of someone trying to sabotage what you're saying, which I mean they go really far, they do a lot of crazy things character assassination, stuff in here, you know, in our old dossier.

Travis:

Thank you, jordan, for putting this together for us, by the way yeah, our researcher is uh is the best good. You have a personal connection with our researcher.

Josh:

Yep, she's my wife and she does everything 110%, and she's very passionate about these topics.

Travis:

So are we talking about his criminal activity?

Josh:

So a year later he was arrested for aiding and abetting a prostitute ring.

Travis:

Yeah, so 1990.

Josh:

This was reduced to felony pandering. I don't know what that means. I don't either, so he pled guilty.

Travis:

Yeah, he pled guilty to it.

Josh:

And was ordered to do 150 hours of community service. Yeah, that is a weird transition going from reverse engineering alien tech to pandering prostitutes.

Travis:

I don't know. It's like he's a human man. I'm not going to like kink, shame anybody. I'm not shaming Everybody has their vices and he pled guilty to the reduced charges. I mean good for him. So I think this just plays into like them trying to discredit anything that he said or is saying. They're like well, this guy's into smut and objectifying women, so can you really trust him when it comes to chemistry and these things that he's claiming? So this is part of the character assassination that took place.

Josh:

But are they saying so aiding and abetting? Does that mean he hired a prostitute or was he a pimp?

Travis:

I don't. That's a good question. I guess more on that later, maybe a good question. I guess they were more on that later maybe, maybe, hopefully, yeah, further research uh is due to this topic if we ever have, like a patreon or bonus paid episodes, we'll we'll just talk about what his sexual proclivities were like pimp lazar.

Josh:

An episode of the the dark underbelly side of bob lazar and his pimp days and science yeah, yeah, so there was that side of Bob. Lazar and his pimp days and science. Yeah, yeah, so there was that. In 2006, he and his wife, joy White, were charged with violating the Federal Hazardous Substance Act for shipping restricted chemicals across state lines. The charges were stemmed from a raid in 2003 on United Nuclear's business offices, where the chemical sales records were examined. So that is where he now works, it seems, because that was shown in the movie.

Travis:

Okay, it's shown him working there at united nuclear yeah, with different metals and then in 2017 I was hold on, I was under the impression that he was working in his own like independent research facility I think he, because it seemed like that place seems like it was him, and then one other guy who loved working there, like it did seem like weirdly loved, he just would.

Travis:

That's all you're talking about. I love working here. You don't get to come and mess with this kind of stuff anywhere else. And yeah, it's a it's a pleasure to work here. A lot of the info I felt like was leading up to the 115, and it spent a lot of time on that. There wasn't a whole lot on what I was. Well, not just that, it's Bob Lazar colon, area 51 and Flying Saucers, and I didn't feel like there was enough in there about the two subtitles of that the Area 51 and Flying Saucers. Subtitles of that the Area 51 and Flying Saucers. It was kind of covering, like Bob Lazar's work history and not even covering the controversy Cause I don't at least I don't remember there being a controversy in that documentary. I'm just now reading about it in the dossier that was put together.

Josh:

Yeah, so that's what was interesting. So you going into watching this movie, you're like I don't know who balbazar is.

Travis:

yeah, watching this I thought it was the ancient aliens guy you still don't.

Josh:

I mean, you do a little bit more but come at me, alien bros do it but you don't really. The documentary didn't inform you of who balbazar was other than a whistleblower one, which I mean they don't, they don't even.

Travis:

I don't think they even say that in the documentary that he was a whistleblower. That was just something that popped into my head. I was like, oh, he's the guy that introduced us to Area 51. Okay, that's who. Bob Lazar is All right. So then things started to fall into place after that knowledge hit. My problem with this is I have not ever seen a movie with Bob Lazar in it, and like my alien references mostly are going to be centered around movies. So like that is my introduction to aliens, you know, thanks to Steven Spielberg, like seeing ET when I was a wee lad so Lazar kind of looks like Stephen King uh, he does look like Stephen King very much.

Travis:

He's got those big round glasses that have like I mean not currently, but back when Bob Lazar was Bob Lazar, he had like these glasses that had like that cross beam on it and, like any engineer you knew from the 80s or 90s, they were wearing these exact glasses.

Josh:

And I think that.

Travis:

They're cool glasses. I wear glasses and I was looking at getting a pair of these just because I thought they were like very cool retro glasses, yeah, but putting them on my face just makes me look like a creepy pedo. I can see that well, that's why I'm not wearing them. I don't want people to see that.

Josh:

I don't want people especially when you went through your, especially when you went through your mustache stage. Oh, that was the worst.

Travis:

Yeah, yeah, that was the worst. I looked like the lorax he did um, I speak for the trees.

Josh:

I don't think we need any more proof that he was an engineer other than the glasses yeah, no, that's, that's cred, right there that is, that's lab cred. Yeah, I was gonna say street cred, but he's far from it. Yeah, he's far from the streets.

Josh:

Other than him driving A rocket ship, a rocket ship to work, and he actually made the news and later, when people were trying to discredit him, the place that he would drive to work and was in the local newspaper about it. Yeah, they said he never worked there and then they went to look at his colleges. They said he never went to college.

Travis:

He didn't have a record of ever being at mit. He was enrolled in another school but it was like 2500 miles away. The guy george knapp, did reveal that he was in the directory for area 51. No, maybe it wasn't area 51, but he was in a directory. That if he wasn't employed alamos if he wasn't employed there, why would his name be in the directory? But again, are we looking at paper records in a paper phone book? That could be faked.

Josh:

Yeah, he found his name, along with some of the other scientific technicians, in a phone book. Yeah, phone book, which I wish phone books were still a thing, like company phone books or church phone books or school phone books, do you remember? The school phone books.

Travis:

When I got my first cell phone as a very young lad, I remember putting a tiny version of the phone book because they would send these giant ass phone books that had everything in it and then you would get a smaller version of like businesses and then some residential stuff, and I remember putting that in my car and thinking this is the coolest. This is like peak adulthood.

Josh:

Yeah, I have an index of every business.

Travis:

Yeah Well, if somebody was riding around with me I'd say like oh yeah, if you need to look up Pizza Hut, there's a phone book under my passenger seat. Go ahead.

Josh:

I would find funny people like funny names in the white pages and just call them and be like, hi, is this john hamburger? And then he's like, yeah, and I was like.

Travis:

And then I would just hang up so this is part of the no aliens portion of the podcast I mean it lines up because there was a company phone book yeah, and he was in it and they and they are.

Josh:

Yeah, and they said he wasn't in it. Yeah, and then he was also named one of the technicians or scientists at Los Alamos in the newspaper because he drove his rocket car to work every day. That would go 200 miles an hour.

Travis:

God, I hope not. That's really fast. Where's his rocket car now? I don't know. Is there pictures of him driving his rocket car?

Josh:

Yeah.

Travis:

Okay, I see it. It looks like a DeLorean. Imagine what you think a rocket car would look like, and that's practically it. It looks like Marty McFly's DeLorean from Back to the Future, Except it doesn't have the what are those doors called that go up?

Josh:

I don't know what those are called Wing doors. Yeah, so it was.

Josh:

1982 is when this picture in the newspaper came out, and it's a picture a man with a car, with Knapp, george Knapp, the journalist, saying that it profiles Lazar and his interest in jet cars, and it zooms in on the clip and it says it's not the car. So much that's important to Lazar, a physicist at Los Alamos Mason physics facility. The important thing is the jet engine. It's something he's been working on for years. It started a while ago when working with another researcher in NASA on the technology. Okay, so that's what the article said.

Travis:

Yeah, look at that, that same with his rocket car.

Josh:

And he was on a rocket.

Travis:

It has like an engine on the in the back. It's a hatchback, so the back is open and then this engine is sitting in the back of his car. It's like the most ridiculous thing. But there he is, standing on the hood, at the hood of his car, looking like a cool guy. This is a poster called alive in the darkness the story of bob lazar. I want that poster. It's pretty cool. He does look like Stephen King. You're right. Yeah, yeah, there's an article. This is a real hot rod. Bob Lazar isn't kidding when he says his car runs on a jet engine. The physicist at Los Alamos National Laboratory modified his compact car for a jet engine that can propel it up to 200 miles per hour. So this was an article in. It doesn't say it's just a newspaper clip.

Josh:

It looks like, because of our wonderful researcher, it was Los Alamos Monitor article, so it was in 1982. It was the date reading Sunday June. It says 2X on here, but I think it's June 2nd or June 20 something.

Travis:

Oh, too.

Josh:

Redacted oh, but that's the thing is like they were saying he didn't work there. They're saying he didn't go to all these colleges. Why would he have these jobs if he didn't go to college? Have you seen?

Travis:

the movie. Catch me if you can. Yeah, that basically covers how you can get away with it. Yeah, where leo is just like very good at manufacturing documents and back then I mean, internet wasn't what it was. We didn't have it as like a resource or a database. And I'm not calling into question Bob Lazar's credentials or anything like that. I'm just saying that it is very reasonable to suspect that he could have made this up back then. It is well within reason To suspect that he could have made this up back then. It is well within reason. It was so much easier to get away with this sort of like fraud then because of the lack of internet and internet accessibility, Like the process for checking any sort of resource that you not recommendation. What is it? Where do you references? When you were calling to check on references, it was just that it was a phone call. You would make a phone call or you could send and most people didn't even call yeah, they just assumed you were.

Josh:

You know at your word like the woman that was doing sign language for the white house in that press conference.

Travis:

Yeah, because nobody there spoke sign language like they had no idea.

Josh:

They're just like okay, she was there on live television yeah she's nailing it and she was just making hand signals. That meant nothing. Yeah, she just lied. Yeah, and she lied and she got away with it. I don't know how she got that position. Maybe it was like on her resume and she just lied about it.

Travis:

And they're like oh, our translator, or she had mentioned like to her boss. Maybe she worked at that agency, a government agency, and mentioned to her boss that she knows asl american sign language and he was like, well, we need. I assume it was a he, because it's government and because it's a patriarchy.

Travis:

Smash the patriarchy. Just be nice to me because I'm on your side, I'm an ally, um, and I think what had happened is she had said she knows asl. And the guy was like well, we have a press conference coming up, we need somebody to communicate this broad spectrum. If you could be our ASL liaison, perfect.

Josh:

And she looked so nervous while she was doing it.

Travis:

Yeah, and then she did it and then it was just like it was like she got caught. It looked like she was casting a spell. Yeah, I mean, if you don't know ASL and you don't.

Josh:

I wouldn't know what to do.

Travis:

You don't recognize that that's a language People are speaking. It does look like a wizard casting a spell. Take that out if it's offensive.

Josh:

I don't think it is Okay, because ASL doesn't look like you're casting a spell, but she did.

Travis:

She looked like she was casting a spell, but I'm saying say you came to this planet and you were watching somebody wave their hands about, like that you had an idea. That's also okay. So we also have to assume they have a working knowledge of magic and what a wizard is right. So these aliens come to this planet and the only thing they're missing is knowing that asl is a language. So they look at that and they're like oh shit, they have magic.

Josh:

We have magic too or they spent a lot of time wondering what it was, and then they. Their only conclusion was it was magic.

Travis:

Yeah, it was magic, anyway. So yeah, she got fired for magic.

Josh:

It seems as though we derailed a little bit.

Travis:

But that's why that's, that's the fun of this. So taking these little bird walks it's.

Josh:

It's healthy to have a suspicion, not a suspicion.

Travis:

I'm a skeptic, you're a skeptic, I believe in aliens. I just don't trust the community. I think the community is pretty toxic and very paranoid. I'm not like a little government boy who believes everything that the government says, but I do have a certain level of trust in what we're hearing from the government. And call me a whatever, a trusting rube, I don't care.

Travis:

Well, this is about what we're not hearing from the government. Well, no, I mean, what we're talking, we're addressing, is the things that we know and things that have been redacted. That's what we're talking about. And then the alien community as a whole.

Josh:

I don't know if you guys have a name. That's a name. That's a big stamp statement.

Travis:

Yeah, Is it a? Do they have a name or they like? Do they call themselves alien bros, UFO?

Josh:

Just ufologists, okay, well, uh, yeah, it is a big stamp statement saying that the entire community is crazy conspiracists.

Travis:

I didn't say the entire community, I'm saying the involvement, little as it is, with that community has been one of paranoia honestly, there are kooky crazy people out there.

Josh:

Let's say, I saw bigfoot yeah, and well, that that's.

Travis:

The other thing is all of these conspiracy theorists. They all get lumped into one big pot. And so if you believe in Bigfoot Yeti, then you also believe in Wendigo, you also believe in skid walkers, you also believe in aliens and leprechauns, extraterrestrials. No, nobody believes in leprechauns Not anymore. But they're all just painted with a big, broad brush. And I'm sorry if I offended you guys by saying you're all paranoid freaks, but that's my impression with you you paranoid freaks.

Josh:

That's the thing is there's a lot of people that are not that as well. Yeah, I mean, some of these people are high officials, ministers of defense. I mean these are credible, credible people, and it took even more courage for them to come out because the government, it has seemed as though they're discrediting anyone that talks about it. I mean anyone in the military. If they talk about it, they'd be relieved of their duty, this, all these things, because they'd call them crazy.

Travis:

What I would say to that is cite your sources. Like I want to know who these government officials are and why they're fired. Like I don't know anything about we'll get the ministry of defense, ministry of the magical arts, or whatever department they work in or agency they work for.

Josh:

Well, we'll get there, you'll learn this stuff and we'll learn it together. I don't know any of the names right now, but I just know they exist. I've seen clips, I've seen footage, I've listened to podcasts about some of these people. Yeah, and I think they're just upset with the community when there's people that are like the aliens. They contact me every night and they take me up and they put things in me. You know, like, yeah, you go to an alien convention. A lot of the people there, more so, fantasize about the idea of aliens, or I don't know how. They Sure they may believe it, or they could just be straight lying, I don't know, but I do believe that a lot of these people or it could have been an experience they had.

Travis:

And then, because we are as human beings, we are storytellers. That's in our DNA and we like to tell a good story. And sometimes, if you tell a story long enough, adding to it, as it were there's a lot of books that we consider sacred right now that, I would say, fall under the same definition. As you're writing things over years and you add things to it, you start to really believe that story and it becomes. It's not fiction for you anymore. Now it is fact, this is part of your person.

Josh:

Like if say, you're not remembering the moment, you're remembering your memory you're remembering your, yeah, your, the memory you created for yourself. And if you remember it multiple times, the memory is going to change.

Travis:

And also, if you're telling somebody a story and this is 100% true of me I look at who I'm talking to and I gauge my story based on their reaction, so it can get a little more outrageous based on who I'm talking to and the reaction I'm getting.

Josh:

Like when you said that there was five cops at your house, but there was actually four.

Travis:

There was only four. I got raided today. Yep, so very thematic. I got raided today by the police.

Josh:

You said five and I had a blank expression and then you said, actually, actually I better pull back on this. Five cops that ever show up. It was four, yeah, and then I had a reaction oh, yeah, and then I dove right into the story.

Travis:

But yeah, uh, long story short. Thematically, I got rated today because the cops knew that I was going to be recording this podcast that's not true. He saw someone pouring oil on a vehicle believe who you will.

Travis:

Yeah, uh, no, but I did. I. I had a very weird experience today as I was mowing my lawn. Uh, there was a truck parked in front of our house. A character, a white male, walked up, checked the doors on the truck. I finished mowing my lawn. He came back and was holding a three gallon jug of oil. He checked the the lock again, he dumped the oil on the windshield and hood of the car and threw a lit cigarette on it and then took off running down the road. You would think you would think my first reaction would be to call the police, but it was to send my wife a message like, hey, something really weird happened. I could you please call me. And she said she was getting into a meeting and so I had to explain to her in text what I saw and she's like yeah, you should definitely call the cops. So yeah, I had four cops show up in my house, crawling all over this truck and asking questions, and they agreed that it was bizarro it is it's.

Travis:

It was a weird thing. It was a weird thing that happened to me today before recording this show. I didn't get rated because I was recording a podcast about aliens, or did.

Josh:

I or maybe. So back to Bob Lazar. Back to Bob. They're trying to disqualify. It seems as though that anything and everything that they were just trying to scrub him from existence. Even now, it's hard to find much information on him. You go to his Wikipedia. It's a very small Wikipedia page. There's been over 500 edits since 2019. And we went through the history of the edits to see what was there before and they had tons of information on him. All of that is gone and all that remains are seething entries Like angry. That is gone and all that remains are seething entries like angry. Lazar has no evidence of alien life or technology, and his claimed education and employment history is replete with fabrication. Lazar is also a criminal. He was convicted in 1980 for his involvement in a prostitution ring and began in 2006 for selling illegal chemicals. As well as being dismissed by skeptics, lazar has been renounced by some ufologists. Journalist Ken Lane states a lot of credible people have looked at Lazar's story and rashly concluded that he made it up.

Travis:

I think we need to get like an actual pronunciation on Is it ufologists, is it ufologists or is it ufologists, ufologists, ufologist or is it ufologist, aphologist, aphologist? I think aphologist is really funny it just seems weird.

Josh:

It seems like someone angry wrote this about him and it probably was.

Travis:

It probably was an angry person. I mean, a lot of things are done out of spite it's very deliberate wording.

Travis:

What it should say is Well, that's what we were talking about earlier with the character assassination. Like they were after Bob Lazar's character, they tried to discredit him and now I'm going to start to sound like that person. But you know, just doing this a little bit of reading, it does seem like there's some character defamation that was trying to happen, where they made light of his whistleblowing and made heavy his involvement in a prostitution ring Like that's. If you were to probably look up his criminal history, it's that Like prostitution ring. When he got raided later with his wife, it was claimed that it was part of a murder investigation. There was an element, thallium, that had leaked out and contaminated the lab and some people died because of it. So that's what they were raiding his house for.

Josh:

And then in 2017, he got raided again looking for element 115.

Travis:

He said he stole.

Josh:

Yeah, which he said privately. They turned off their phones, they were in the woods, and that's. The other thing is they've been following him. In the Joe Rogan podcast I I listened to, he talked about how they went after some of his friends and family and some of his friends that were in military or science.

Travis:

they let go as far as that goes, I would again. I would say cite your sources like it's easy to say my friends and family are being threatened and just leave it like an obscure allegation or claim like that, but like if you're allegation or claim like that, but like if you're going to make something like that and be on a very big podcast, I think you need to be more specific a little bit. You don't have to name names or anything like that, but give I mean it was a two and a half hour.

Josh:

I didn't listen.

Travis:

I didn't listen to the podcast. I don't, I don't know. I'm just saying cite your sources.

Josh:

That is something that is Okay. The other thing is he knew the names of some of the generals working and scientists working at Area 51 that no pedestrian, no one, should know, sure.

Travis:

Okay.

Josh:

The interviewer who got him the job at S4 was interviewed and said he does remember Bob interviewing him.

Travis:

Was he like? Yeah man, stephen King came into my workplace and just started asking me questions. I thought it was for a book.

Josh:

The other thing is that he was kind of vindicated over time because some of the things he talked about, which were denied or just seemed fake, were eventually right all along. Yeah, just like the Los Alamos lab that he worked at. This was later Okay, he was in the phone book, the directory of employees there, with other scientists right. Area 51 he said there was a top secret facility in the nevada desert called area 51 and, like you said, the government denied its existence until 2013. And then the hand scanner that he talked about yeah, to actually enter s4, they would like read your bones or whatever. In this documentary they actually showed an image of it and Bob was like I never thought I'd see that again. That is it. That is exactly it. And then element 115. Yeah, he didn't know enough about it to seem credible, but in 2003, a joint team of Russians and American scientists at the Joint Institute for Nuclear Research in Russia discovered the synthetic element.

Josh:

So all the weirdness with his past being washed, all the defamation and then him being right about all of these things, plus all the other whistleblowers. This guy was an early whistleblower. All the newer whistleblowers are coming out, especially in other countries that have high, high, high clearance, one of the main whistleblowers right now. He's the one that went in and interviewed all the people with top clearance. Who is it? I don't remember. We're going to have to do an episode on the current.

Travis:

Oh, you're going to dock some people. Yeah, oh, ok. Juicy episode.

Josh:

But that's the thing is like these people are the top officials, highest clearance, and they're coming forward in congress saying, hey, this is real, the world needs to know about it. It is illegal what the united states are doing, and congress is like, yeah, it is. We want all documentation that the military has now and we want all whistleblowers to come forward and let us know what you've been doing and there'll be no punishment. But the a lot of all whistleblowers to come forward and let us know what you've been doing and there'll be no punishment. But a lot of the whistleblowers have backed out because they have been getting threats very similar to what Bob Lazar has had. So just everything together. It just seems as though there is something more than just the facts that we know, and the only reason we have the facts that we know are because of the whistleblowers. Right?

Travis:

If we didn't have the whistleblowers we we have. The facts that we know are because of the whistleblowers, right.

Josh:

If we didn't have the whistleblowers, we would have no facts at all. Right, well, that's, that's fair in any business.

Travis:

The government said marijuana was bad.

Josh:

Yeah, and then you have, and then you try it and you're like this isn't bad, yeah.

Travis:

And then you have cheech and chong saying like no, this stuff is fucking good. Yeah, this stuff fucking rules. And then willie nelson comes out and like he's like america's grandpa, like why would you, why would you try to discredit willie nelson?

Travis:

he says weed is good well, and now it's legal in a lot of places we're here everywhere, but where we live, in idaho you know I didn't mean to invoke cheech and chong by name, but you can get weed delivered to every other state in our union except idaho. They say that on their website. They're like we'll deliver anywhere except to you, idaho that's true, I've seen that yeah, it's hilarious and sad. It's only funny if you don't live, if you don't live here at this, but that's but that's the thing is like the government said it was wrong forever.

Josh:

And then they're like oh, never mind, it's not you know.

Travis:

So I mean, they have a right, and that's just no I mean like, look, if we're gonna get into like that sort of conspiracy stuff I I love drug conspiracy information like yeah, uh, marijuana. There was a campaign to make marijuana seem illegal for various reasons, which we're not going to go into that right now because this isn't that's not the point of this podcast. But they made a show, a movie, reefer madness. That was a a scare tactic yeah, the scare tactic to keep people from smoking weed, which was then parodied in a musical later, where they do very similar crazy shenanigans in the movie musical. To kind of juxtapose against the original reefer madness, that was made to like make people afraid of marijuana. And it's marijuana like you could smoke the shit out of that. You're either gonna smoke yourself sober or smoke yourself passed out like, uh, marijuana you. There are no records of anybody overdoing on marijuana.

Josh:

Usually it's in conjunction with another drug just so listeners know, travis and I actually don't smoke marijuana no, I don't.

Travis:

It makes me very weird in my brain same with me I get panic attacks.

Josh:

Yeah, I get panic attacks.

Travis:

I get panic attacks. I used to love it. It was my favorite thing to do before cleaning my house, but I can't do it. It gives me so much anxiety.

Josh:

But it is an interesting history of the drug. I mean, I've heard that lobbyists went against it because of big paper.

Travis:

There are a lot of reasons. Like paper didn't like because hemp was a side product of marijuana or a sister plant of marijuana and that was going to take away from like paper and any sort of wood product.

Josh:

Yeah, there's all these crazy things. Yeah, it just lets you know that the government isn't always reliable.

Travis:

No, it's not. Business is not always reliable. It's not necessarily the government. I think the government is, for the most part, acting on behalf of the American people. But there are those few in government that have a lot of power and get that power through big business, through lobbying efforts, and they become rich and powerful because of those. But there are people in government that do have the people's best interests at heart, but those people are not accepting big donations, they're not accepting a lot of outside money and are doing a lot of grassroots fundraising. When you're looking at like grassroots fundraising versus like Silicon Valley funding, you just get squished.

Travis:

Yeah, you get squished like a little bug.

Josh:

The reason whistleblowers are so important is we were talking about how, even you still have the skewed view, skeptic, of the community I am the scully of this podcast.

Travis:

Right, x files. Yeah, from x files you're molder, or my you're.

Josh:

You're the david dacovany I'll be him, yeah, great he's a handsome yeah, handsome sex addict.

Josh:

I was gonna say hand model but the thing is reference with a lot of these prominent whistleblowers coming out and a lot of the documentaries and a lot of videos being released from military actual military video and Congress actually taking notice and calling for this information to come forward. It's making it as though this community isn't as crazy as they have seemed in the past or that the government has made them seem. It's vindicating for a lot of these people who have been called crazy, because I've known multiple people who have seen strange phenomenon and different things, but they don't like talking about it because of the stigma around the culture that was created by the government, I believe.

Travis:

Okay, sure, I think that there's a lot of phenomena that people see, and they don't have the language to describe what they're seeing. So they're just like regular people like me and you who might see something up in the cosmos, up in the heavens, and they don't know how to describe what an asteroid is or, you know, a satellite is, or slight shifts in weather or whatever. And so there are things that naturally occur here that people just don't have the experience with. And when they see something like a lightning ball I don't know if you've seen those before, but they're just like these little balls of lightning that aren't grounded and they just float around.

Josh:

I had seen terribly dangerous. I've seen that in the house I'm in right now.

Travis:

Yeah, those are incredibly dangerous.

Josh:

So Jordan and I both saw it. We were sitting on the couch and we both saw it in our peripherals yeah, and when we looked it was gone.

Travis:

If you don't have an understanding of that, you could attribute that to an extraterrestrial phenomenon. Yeah Right, like, if you don't have the language or the experience, then that is. It's otherworldly to see that.

Josh:

Yeah, it freaked us out, for sure, and we didn't know and we did research and figured out what it was.

Travis:

Yeah, I do want to get I don't know this is at the end of the podcast, so me saying get ahead of it what this podcast is about. What it is about for me is I want to gain an understanding of something that I don't understand or I don't have a lot of knowledge of, and this is my way of doing it. I primarily like talking about movies, and I have a separate podcast where I get the opportunity to do that, but I also really love information, and this is something that was near and dear to my friend, josh, and I really am interested in it, and so that is my interest in this podcast. I am looking forward to learning as much about aliens, phenomena, flying saucers, area 51.

Travis:

Not so interested in like the Bob Lazar of it all, necessarily, but I am very interested in like cult of personality, and I think Bob Lazar has a cult of personality. I think that there's a huge following and that people get into ufology ufology because of Bob Lazar, not that he's charismatic, but because of the buzz around him. I guess, if it were I don't know if that's the right word, but Well, and also the bizarreness he brings a lot of.

Travis:

Yeah, his milkshake, as it were, brings a lot of boys to the yard.

Josh:

Yeah, I'm learning and getting all this info too. I appreciate that you're coming at it the way you are with-. Hey I appreciate you too, josh. No, I appreciate that you're coming at it the way you are by questioning everything. I mean that's important. I'm never going to deny someone's question. I'm eager and excited to learn just as much as you are, but I'm more prone to believe with just the information that I have, sure, which is awesome. I want to encourage anyone listening to do your own research. Don't just listen to what we're saying.

Travis:

No, no, no, no. Listen to what we're saying. Yes, please listen. In compliment to this nonsense. There are resources out there for you guys to look up.

Josh:

Yeah, we want you to learn about Babalazar and form your own opinions.

Travis:

And, fortunately for us, unfortunately for you we don't have an email set up just yet, so we can say whatever we want, Consequence free. Haha, suck it, nerds With that we do have a quiz.

Josh:

So next episode we're going to talk about the roswell incident, one of the yeah, one of the most groundbreaking, most popular incident of incidences if you don't know anything about aliens, you probably have a very tertiary knowledge of roswell and what roswell is, the titular roswell incident and we're going to get into it.

Travis:

And we will talk about next week.

Josh:

There was whistleblowers in that as well.

Travis:

Okay, I feel like we said whistleblowers a lot in this episode.

Josh:

Well, they're important. So for a kind of a baseline of where we're at with Roswell, we are going to do a quiz to see what we each know.

Travis:

Get ready for disappointment. Disappointment, if you're putting all of your eggs in my basket. Not gonna be, not gonna be fun. I, oh boy, you want, you want to take the first one like ask you I'll ask you, okay. No, you ask me. You ask me because I have the advantage of seeing all the questions, just not knowing any of the uh, the answers okay, we want to make yourself look as good as possible.

Travis:

No, I want to get okay. Yeah, I want all the easy questions. We were given a little qualifier before we started. Don't click any of the things because it may not give us a real-time answer. I think we have to submit to find what our. But go ahead, josh, take it away.

Josh:

So I'm going to ask you the first question. Yeah, all right. Question one for Travis when is Roswell, is it?

Travis:

Nevada, Arizona, Texas or New Mexico, it is in the great state of Nevada. Final answer, home of sin and luxury.

Josh:

Okay.

Travis:

I don't know if it's luxury.

Josh:

It's really hot in nevada. Great answer. Do you want to ask me?

Travis:

the next one. Yeah, hold on. Before we get to this, we will submit our answers, so we will have a full summary of this at the end of the quiz. So, josh, what year did the roswell ufo incident occur? Was it the year 1917, 1947, 1967 or 1987?

Josh:

I believe it was 1947. Okay, go ahead and ask me the next question what was initially reported in the newspaper to have been found at roswell I believe that was a weather balloon. They are a weather balloon. Oh, a meteorite, a flying disc or a military aircraft, and so you say weather balloon I said uh, weather balloon, um yeah okay okay, josh.

Travis:

uh, what did the military claim was actually found at the Roswell site? Was it an experimental aircraft, a Soviet spy device, a weather balloon, a school science project?

Josh:

A weather balloon. Okay, all right. What secret military project was the instant blamed on? Oh Jesus Project, blue Book Project, mogul Project.

Travis:

Sign or Project Grudge, I don't know. I don't know. Uh, I'm gonna guess, because it seems like there was so much and this is way off base. I'm gonna say project grudge, um, but only because it seemed like somebody had an axe to grind against Bob Lazar. Okay, okay, josh, yes, what else is said to have been found in the Roswell debris? Was it alien bodies, unidentified plants, advanced weapons or alien hieroglyphics?

Josh:

The answer is alien bodies. Alien bodies.

Travis:

Okay, hit submit, new Mexico. I was wrong. So right off the bat I was wrong, and it continued on. After that. Josh got his right 1947. I got my what was initially a report in the newspapers to have been found at Roswell as a weather balloon. That's wrong. It was a flying disc.

Josh:

It was redone. Well, we'll get about that later.

Travis:

Josh's question what did the military claim was actually found at Roswell was a weather balloon. So that's where they changed it. That's what I had thought. So Josh got his right. What secret military project was the incident blamed on? I said Project Grudge, wrong Project Mogul on. I said project grudge, wrong project mogul. And then, of course, the last question what else is said to have been found in the roswell debris? Josh correctly answered alien body. So 100 to josh, zero percent to me I wouldn't have gotten the project one correct.

Travis:

All the other ones I knew well uh, next time speak up, josh, I would have gotten the aliens one right I, I would have gotten weather balloons.

Josh:

Right, that's true.

Travis:

You're the one that picked the order so that you'd look good, uh, I know I'm an idiot, I uh I'm, I'm a legal idiot well, cool, now we know who knows what going into our roswell episode. I know nothing, josh knows. Uh, quite a bit it's exciting.

Josh:

There's a lot to get into it with it okay, well, uh, how do we end this josh?

Travis:

what do we do? Thanks for coming to the show. Thanks for listening. I appreciate your time. I love you. You crazy paranoid freaks, keep listening. Grow with us, grow as we grow. This show is a grower, not a shower.

Josh:

Yes, I respect all of you in this fine community You're going to get arrested for pandering, I could.

Travis:

Hopefully that's what's going to happen, you're going to get arrested. You're going to get a raid in here for pandering.

Josh:

I'm just excited to do this show and as we learn and grow, you can be on this journey with us. If you're in the same boat as us, where you're interested but you don't know a lot, maybe our little show will ease you into it, just like it is us. Sure, yep, all right. Thanks for listening. Okay, bye.